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Old 5th of October 2009 (Mon)   #1
nicksan
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Default 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

Ran some tests comparing RAW vs mRAW (10MP) in terms of ISO noise.

I used DPP, zeroed out what I could (Noise, Sharpening) and exported it to PS CS4.

Left side is RAW. Right side is mRAW. I downsized the RAW to mRAW size of 3888 x 2952. I am not sure if that invalidates this test. You guys tell me.

All are 100% crops.

ISO3200


ISO3200


ISO6400


ISO6400


I decided to dust off Noiseware instead of dFine. Did a nice job removing the noise...

ISO3200 Noiseware Applied


ISO3200 Noiseware applied


ISO6400 Noiseware applied


ISO6400 Noiseware applied


IMO, the RAW resized to mRAW looks better because the grain becomes much finer which is conducive to better NR. However depending on where in the frame you are looking at, mRAW seems to look "smoother"...but perhaps with the expense of losing detail? Not really sure.
I also ran into some strange DPP 3.7 behaviour with mRAW. The letters in the frame appear jagged. When I up the color NR to 1, the jaggies are gone. This does not happen for RAW files.

Obviously, I could not open the mRAW files in ACR, even with the 5.5 beta update.

Comments/contributions are welcomed!

Last edited by nicksan : 5th of October 2009 (Mon) at 23:44.
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Old 5th of October 2009 (Mon)   #2
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

D'Addario strings

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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #3
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

Darn it--all my pixel-bining hopes are dashed! Maybe on the new 1D/1Ds Mk IV?
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #4
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

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Originally Posted by M3Rocket View Post
Darn it--all my pixel-bining hopes are dashed! Maybe on the new 1D/1Ds Mk IV?
whatchu talkin bout Willis..?? 100% crop - ISO6400 - that isn't too shabby at all...not too shabby at all...
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #5
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

mRAW just looks like RAW with less detail. Not a big deal, but for anyone who cares, it's there.
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #6
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

Seems that with 7D RAW is better than mRaw. While on 50D RAW1 is better than RAW in term of noise
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #7
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

For a good, short discussion of "pixel-binning," try this: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/684759

I don't need or want the very large RAW files all the time for a whole bunch of reasons. The idea is to get better noise performance with mRAW or sRAW using a sophisticated algorithm to combine raw pixels. I was hoping Canon would start making some big breakthroughs in this area rather than just increasing the MP. I'd rather have 10 fantastic MPs than 21 good MPs.
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #8
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

The mRAW seem to loose some detail, I don't understand why as I think a resized raw would be equal to an mRAW. But there must be some difference in the resizing algoritm.

RAW/mRAW comparision disregarded these images show how well the camera handles high ISO and how well it will clean up with a noise reduction program.

I tried mine out at ISO 3200 yesterday for a hockey game and I'm impressed with the result. This camera can be used at 3200 without hesitation and that is better than I dared hope for, better than the 5D classic.
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #9
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

I read on FM that shooting in mRAW yields better results noise wise so I wanted to see for myself. I just don't see it.

That said, I would not hesitate to shoot mRAW if needed.

I am not sure if the conversion software has anything to do with the inconsistent results I am getting. ACR 5.5 and DPP 3.7 both...

DPP is having some issues rendering sRAW. I see a lot of jaggies and only when I set color NR to 1 do they go away.
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #10
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

Here are the original RAW & mRAW files (JPEG converted) downloadable from Rapidshare of another comparation test shots done at ISO 100, ISO 1600 & ISO 3200 ... yield at DPR:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=33219388

and this is stright comparation between ISO 3200 of a 100% crop put together:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4630/comp3200copy.jpg


Watch by yourself ....
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Last edited by PacAce : 6th of October 2009 (Tue) at 09:09. Reason: Embedded image changed to link
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #11
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

Looks like the RAW wasn't resized to mRAW size.

I'll be the first to tell you I have no idea what the proper test is, whether it's to compare 100% from these files untouched, or to resize the RAW to 10MP.

I purposely resized the RAW to mRAW then compared b/c that's what I wanted to see , namely the difference at 10MP. Doing that, I find that they are pretty close, with the slight edge going to the RAW resized to 10MP...I find the finer grain pattern much more pleasing than the slight blotching that I see in the mRAW. You'll also notice that it cleans up nicer when applying NR.
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #12
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Zas View Post
Here are the original RAW & mRAW files (JPEG converted) downloadable from Rapidshare of another comparation test shots done at ISO 100, ISO 1600 & ISO 3200 ... yield at DPR:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=33219388

and this is stright comparation between ISO 3200 of a 100% crop put together

Watch by yourself ....
This is totally consistent with what I got. 100% view of mRAW files at ISO 3200 is VERY impressive. Better than anything one can get from those 10 or 12 MP DSLRs at those high ISO settings.

Of course, for those highly prejudiced skeptics out there, even if I show you an ISO 100 shot and claim it's ISO 3200, you'll still say the noise is excessive.
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #13
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

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Originally Posted by thw View Post
This is totally consistent with what I got. 100% view of mRAW files at ISO 3200 is VERY impressive. Better than anything one can get from those 10 or 12 MP DSLRs at those high ISO settings.

Of course, for those highly prejudiced skeptics out there, even if I show you an ISO 100 shot and claim it's ISO 3200, you'll still say the noise is excessive.
Interesting that my tests don't look anything like that. It almost seems like they were oversharpened resulting in white specs within the grain, etc.
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #14
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksan View Post
Looks like the RAW wasn't resized to mRAW size.

I'll be the first to tell you I have no idea what the proper test is, whether it's to compare 100% from these files untouched, or to resize the RAW to 10MP.

I purposely resized the RAW to mRAW then compared b/c that's what I wanted to see , namely the difference at 10MP. Doing that, I find that they are pretty close, with the slight edge going to the RAW resized to 10MP...I find the finer grain pattern much more pleasing than the slight blotching that I see in the mRAW. You'll also notice that it cleans up nicer when applying NR.
I don't think there is really a correct way to test. After using the 5D2, and seeing just how irrelevant 100% crops are when dealing with 21mp, I definitely have more of a results based view point. How you treat noise, how you process the image will vary from shot to shot and it will also vary depending on output. My NR process (if I use NR at all) would probably be quite different for a 10mp file vs. an 18mp file. Full raw is going to give you more options in the NR department.
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Old 6th of October 2009 (Tue)   #15
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Default Re: 7D RAW vs mRAW ISO Comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksan View Post
I'll be the first to tell you I have no idea what the proper test is, whether it's to compare 100% from these files untouched, or to resize the RAW to 10MP.
The better test is with the same size image, not both at 100%. Why would you compare a 20x30 print to an 8x12?
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