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Thread started 29 Oct 2009 (Thursday) 22:41
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Cavan Images??

 
ch0re0s
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71 posts
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Oct 29, 2009 22:41 |  #1

Has anyone heard of Cavan Images? They're a company located in NY looking for photographers to hire. I found them and want to get involved in the company, but i'd like your thoughts about the company.

They require I fill out a W-9 form and send them my images through email. They also require a three year agreement to "1. Term – The term of this Agreement (the “Term”) will be effective for three (3) years from the Effective Date. The
Term will automatically renew for successive one-year periods, unless either Party terminates the Agreement subject to Section
15."

So I dont want to commit to anything fishy, so any advice would be much appreciated! Btw, I'm located in California, if that clairifies why I would be concerned.

http://www.cavanimages​.com/blog/external link

So this is what they say.

WHAT TO EXPECT AS A CAVAN PHOTOGRAPHER
You can shoot new images or submit from your archive.
On average, a well executed shoot will generate about 10 selected pictures, earning the photographer $500.
Resourceful photographers can double that amount to 20 images selected, earning them $1000.
Images containing people or property will need a valid, signed model release or property release to be considered. The only releases we
are accepting at this time are located
here.
Two things to keep in mind when submitting from an archive:
-Images containing people or property will need a valid, signed model release or property release.
-The images will also have to be digital and of acceptable
quality.
You can submit as many images as you'd like to sell to us. The rate for selected imagery is $50.00 per image, same rate as above.

Please check our
image quality page to learn what we require for camera and image quality.


Thanks in advance!


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Alleh
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Oct 29, 2009 23:24 |  #2

Well without knowing what the contract entails it makes no difference if it's 1 day or 20 years.

I noticed them somewhat recently as well. From the looks of it they are basically looking at purchasing the copyright to photographers images for an extreamly low($50 per images rate) then they just license them through Getty for a profit.

If you don't have high quality stock type images and wouldn't be considered for a contract directly though Getty I doubt they would be interested in what you do.

Outside of purchasing other people images it looks as if they occasionally will contract the better photographer on a work for hire basis to produce specific types of images and they would retain the copyright and thus re license them themselves.

To sum it up they are looking for very talented photographer that don't know how to market and sell their own work so they can snag it for a cheap price and sell it for a profit.

Just a day ago I licensed 2 photos for one time editorial use for $200 each and I can turn around and keep licensing them to whomever whenever depending on the terms the client pays for or on the other hand I could have sold them to Cavan for a one time $50 rate and would never see another dime ever and would have turned over my copyright. I only mention this time because it was the most recent but licensing images is a major part of a commercial photographers income and is something that happens on a regular basis.

For a talented new photographer it would seem like a great opportunity to earn some cash but in the long run you lose out on any future income you could have earned from your images which would probably be far greater than the $50 they pay (If of course your images are good enough for people to be interested int hem and if Cavan is interested other people are as well)


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ch0re0s
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Oct 29, 2009 23:30 |  #3

Thanks soo much for your input. Relieves some of the concern I had about companies similar to Carven. I think i'm gonna be outties from this decision then.

Alleh wrote in post #8922162external link
Well without knowing what the contract entails it makes no difference if it's 1 day or 20 years.

I noticed them somewhat recently as well. From the looks of it they are basically looking at purchasing the copyright to photographers images for an extreamly low($50 per images rate) then they just license them through Getty for a profit.

If you don't have high quality stock type images and wouldn't be considered for a contract directly though Getty I doubt they would be interested in what you do.

Outside of purchasing other people images it looks as if they occasionally will contract the better photographer on a work for hire basis to produce specific types of images and they would retain the copyright and thus re license them themselves.

To sum it up they are looking for very talented photographer that don't know how to market and sell their own work so they can snag it for a cheap price and sell it for a profit.

Just a day ago I licensed 2 photos for one time editorial use for $200 each and I can turn around and keep licensing them to whomever whenever depending on the terms the client pays for or on the other hand I could have sold them to Cavan for a one time $50 rate and would never see another dime ever and would have turned over my copyright. I only mention this time because it was the most recent but licensing images is a major part of a commercial photographers income and is something that happens on a regular basis.

For a talented new photographer it would seem like a great opportunity to earn some cash but in the long run you lose out on any future income you could have earned from your images which would probably be far greater than the $50 they pay (If of course your images are good enough for people to be interested int hem and if Cavan is interested other people are as well)


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
Gaaaaa! DOH!! Oops!
8,985 posts
Joined Apr 2006
North Carolina
Oct 30, 2009 06:53 |  #4

Alleh wrote in post #8922162external link
From the looks of it they are basically looking at purchasing the copyright to photographers images for an extreamly low($50 per images rate) then they just license them through Getty for a profit.

Appears so. Here's oneexternal link on getty. Notice the "photographer" is listed as Cavan. They also have a presence on sites such as Flickr. They're buying and reselling.


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phham
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1 post
Joined Dec 2009
Dec 10, 2009 17:14 |  #5

Hi - I shoot for Cavan and so does a friend of mine - we are both working photogs and still assisting occasionally. I have to say it's been working for us. I get paid about $300 to assist here in New York and so far I make about $600 a day with cavan. I don't get to sell any rights when I'm assisting either and cavan didn't try to hide the fact that they were selling the images at Getty. I just use it as a better alternative to assisting - when my calendar has a few free days in it (which is not unusual) I take my camera out and shoot something and make more than I would of assisting - I take the money they give me and go shoot something for myself which I can license until the cows come home. They sent my friend on a trip that he couldn't do on his own which I though was pretty cool?...

We just use them as another tool for making a living with our cameras and so far it's been working pretty well - I hope this helps!




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Karl ­ Johnston
Cream of the Crop
9,334 posts
Joined Jul 2008
Dec 10, 2009 21:28 |  #6
banned

Good god that's small font. Interesting business model that company has, makes sense too..target the adv. amateur who just wants to make a few bucks, almost like a traditional microstock agency when you think about it side from the fact that you get paid right out which isn't so bad as istock.

Up to you, though it's kind of interesting as a business model...microstock feeding microstock.


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
Gaaaaa! DOH!! Oops!
8,985 posts
Joined Apr 2006
North Carolina
Dec 10, 2009 22:01 |  #7

phham wrote in post #9173208external link
Hi - I shoot for Cavan and so does a friend of mine - we are both working photogs and still assisting occasionally. I have to say it's been working for us. I get paid about $300 to assist here in New York and so far I make about $600 a day with cavan. I don't get to sell any rights when I'm assisting either and cavan didn't try to hide the fact that they were selling the images at Getty. I just use it as a better alternative to assisting - when my calendar has a few free days in it (which is not unusual) I take my camera out and shoot something and make more than I would of assisting - I take the money they give me and go shoot something for myself which I can license until the cows come home. They sent my friend on a trip that he couldn't do on his own which I though was pretty cool?...

We just use them as another tool for making a living with our cameras and so far it's been working pretty well - I hope this helps!

I'd be interested in seeing some of your work. Would you mind posting a link to your website? BTW, I see it's your first post. Welcome to POTN.


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ch0re0s
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Dec 10, 2009 23:41 |  #8

phham wrote in post #9173208external link
Hi - I shoot for Cavan and so does a friend of mine - we are both working photogs and still assisting occasionally. I have to say it's been working for us. I get paid about $300 to assist here in New York and so far I make about $600 a day with cavan. I don't get to sell any rights when I'm assisting either and cavan didn't try to hide the fact that ....



I agree with *CannedHeat ... so far, i've been getting more negative than positive feedback, so you're the first with positive feedback. Thanks for sharing.


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Karl ­ Johnston
Cream of the Crop
9,334 posts
Joined Jul 2008
Dec 10, 2009 23:43 |  #9
banned

Though really, what's stopping you from just joining getty by yourself with your images if they're really that good? You'd make far more money, technically..because I doubt they can move them any faster than you can

Wtf is up with their image quality standards? Any joe could take those shots..I'm surprised they're even on getty.


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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8,985 posts
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North Carolina
Dec 11, 2009 06:31 as a reply to Karl Johnston's post |  #10

I just have to be honest with everybody. I guess I'm just a little cynical at times. Phham joins the board, makes the one post, no name, no links, no info, just a glowingly-positive testimony about how good Cavan is not only to him (her?) but also to his (her?) friends.

To me it just reads like somebody associated with Cavan who happened to catch POTN in a search engine and countered the thread with a response.

First, he (she?) mentions how they normally get paid $300 a day to assist BUT with Cavan, they make $600 a day! Wow! Sounds good, eh?

And then to sweeten the promo pot a little more, he (she?) mentions how Cavan sent his (her?) friend on a trip! Double wow!! Make $600 a day AND have somebody pay for you to see the world!

Not only does it read, at least to me, like a rep from Cavan defending, but it almost reeks of spam.

And perhaps I owe an apology. Just my thoughts.


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exile
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UK (South West...now East Anglia ...and back in Northern Ireland at last)
Dec 11, 2009 06:35 |  #11

CannedHeat wrote in post #9176082external link
Not only does it read, at least to me, like a rep from Cavan defending, but it almost reeks of spam.

You aren't alone!


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amfoto1
Cream of the Crop
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Joined Aug 2007
San Jose, California
Dec 11, 2009 06:58 |  #12

It's an interesting idea when you step back and think about it...

It targets people who are too lazy to or simply can't be bothered to learn how to keyword and upload their own images to a stock site, and/or novices who lack confidence about their work and/or are fearful of rejection by traditional or "mid" stock sites, but want a little more than they know they will get from microstock.

In a sense, it's the stock photo industry version of "shoot and scoot" wedding photography... Take the photos, burn the better ones to a CD/DVD and hand them to the B&G to do with as you wish.

Plays to people wanting "instant gratification" and the general lack of knowledge about the potential future, residual value of their work. Rather than waiting for buyers to find your images and purchase usage, get paid a comparitively tiny, but more "guaranteed" amount right up front,

It's not all that different from taking a job as a staff photographer, say for AP or some print publication... Or, maybe it's more similar to a lot of work for hire situations, if done on a per assignment basis.

Is it better or worse than what Getty themselves are doing? They are hiring photographers directly for, I've been told, $15-20 an hour, then sending them out to photograph specific projects. It's work for hire so Getty owns the copyright.

In the past, stock agencies would share with their photographers lists of subjects that buyers were seeking and not finding. Now with what Getty is doing, they are instead grabbing that business and the copyrights of those images for themselves.

Here's a thought.... Maybe Cavan is Getty... a subsidiary. This is becoming common practice, for a large company to distance themselves a bit through a subsidiary that people don't recognize, for a variety of reasons from compartmentalizing liability to being less obvious to competition what you are up to.

I'm not shooting for them or being judgmental here... Good or bad, I don't know. I'd be unlikely to participate in anything that hands over my copyright...

And, regarding image quality, many people just don't realize how realize how mundane some good selling stock can be.


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Dec 11, 2009 07:11 as a reply to amfoto1's post |  #13

amfoto1,

Intelligent analysis. Do you believe Cavan is paying photogs $600 a day (and paying for travel!) like phham says they are?


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cavan
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Dec 11, 2009 14:53 as a reply to Picture North Carolina's post |  #14

Hello,

My, name is Adam Sternin - I’m the president of Cavan Images.

I just wanted to clear the air and explain what Cavan is:

- We are offering photographers another option to earn money using their camera. Our idea was originally designed for assistants but we’ve attracted all kinds of talented photographers.

- We do have photographers making $50- $2000 submitting pictures with the average falling around $400 - $500
- We are commissioning proven photographers for a $1000.00 rate. Those commissioned projects have included airfare/hotel/transpor​tation expenses.

- We are partnered with a high end retouching company called Stella Digital - Any images selected are retouched to the highest professional standards and are given to the photographer for their self-promotional and fine art use.


Here are a few examples:

Adam Weiss:external link Adam is a highly accomplished photographer that has been working on a new direction for his portfolio. One of the pictures that came out of a shoot for us landed on PDN as their photo of the dayexternal link - He got a lot of attention from potential new clients from a body of work that would not of happened without us. On his website, images 1-18 in portfolio 1 were shot for us plus images 1-15 in portfolio 2 were shot for us as well.

Connor Walberg:external link We’ve been commissioning projects from him while he builds his portfolio and he was recently able to secure a Getty contract thanks to the new volume of work we commissioned.

Chris Sorensen:external link Chris took it upon himself to use a trip home to shoot a storyexternal link about a few friends as well as a cattle drive. We wound up paying for the plane ticket and buying over 40 pictures from that trip. After shooting with us he was also able to get his own Getty contract and now contributes to both Getty and Cavan.

Carissa Pelleteriexternal link: Carissa spent a day gathering a group of friends who are vintage car aficionados. We wound up buying about 20 shotsexternal link from that day.


To answer some specifics:

ch0re0s: All contracts require a length of term.
It is important to know that our contract does not bind a photographer to us in any way. It specifically defines the exchange of copyright for any images that are purchased.

Karl Johnston: As mentioned above we do have professional photographers who do have Getty, Corbis or other contracts and choose to work with us as well. We’re just another option for photographers.

amfoto1: We are not Getty or a Subsidiary.

CannedHeat: I appreciate the cynicism. Yes, we have sent photographers around the country on projects. And yes, photographers can make $600.00/day shooting for us. We are just another outlet for them to get paid to practice their craft in between other jobs.


Please feel free to contact me. I would be happy to answer any questions and, since we are a young company, welcome a dialog with the photography community.

Adam Sternin
www.cavanimages.comexternal link




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Karl ­ Johnston
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Dec 11, 2009 22:12 |  #15
banned

Adam, how or where does Cavan generate a profit ? Is it an NFP organization ? Or what does Cavan end up doing with the images?

$600 a day per person working in the org. is a lot of money to be giving away, so while it is unlikely to be NFP(not for profit)... What is the Canvan seeking to do (what inspired you to start this company)?

If you are giving the images back to the photographer, retouched and to be sold as fine art..then does that mean that you are not buying the photographer's copyrights?

Where does the money come from, why would you pay for a medley of random images ?

I see a lot of money going out, but am not seeing where the money is coming in. The way I see it it looks like an american version of the CARCC (http://www.carcc.ca/ab​out.htmlexternal link)


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