PW Mini Flex or RP PX

[jetlinking]

I've read though many threads about both but can't decided which one to get, so I need you guys to push me over the edge either way.

For you PW Mini Flex guys
1. Do you have to reset your Mini and Flex units all the time? Thought I read on here that someone said something about it, maybe when it does a auto-shutdown? If so, this doesn't sound fun.

2. If you just have the mini on the hot shoe triggering a flex with a 580EXII on it, how do you control the the options on the 580? Like you would if you had a 580 mastering a 430 as a slave? My concern is manually changing the options on the back of a 580 with the sock. I realize if I had a 580 on the camera and a 430 as a slave, the 430 will change with what ever mode the i choose, either manual or ETTL. But, what if there is just the mini on the hotshoe?

3. Are you having good results with the sock?

For you RP PX guys
1. What do you not like about your setup?

Thanks
Jet

[drPheta]

I've used both.

RadioPopper:
They work as advertised, but the mounting is still it's short coming. That bracket they sell is nice, but my backpack as enough stuff in there, already.

PW Flex and Mini TTL:
1. I don't recall needing to reset things much. If I do, it's when autosleep is active (still on older firmware, need to update). All that's needed to be done is recalibrate them.

2. I change the flash exposure compensation via the camera controls. I've shot with
a. Mini on camera, 580EX II on Flex
b. Mini + ST-E2 on camera, 580EX II on flex and 430EX II on flex
c. Mini + 580EX II on camera, 430EX II on flex.

All circumstances I change via in camera flash options (leave my flashes alone), or via the ST-E2 (when being used). Leave all flashes as master and the PWs will take care of the slave signals and such.

What do I like about my setup I have now?
The mounting, streamlined design, and exposure reliability.

What setup do I have now?
PocketWizard Flex/Mini. I liked how the RPs worked, but the mounting is such a big deal to me. Velcro I dealt with it cause it was the only option then. I expected the brackets to be sleek and compact. Well, there's just no way given how the RPs NEED to work. So, I sent them back (before the bracket was even offered), and I don't regret it just yet. The PocketWizards have worked for me, and I don't need to shoot 200+ feet away, yet.

As far as the AC5 is concerned, I'm still waiting to get them to try. But my 580EX II works within 20-30 feet of me w/o it. So, I can only expect great things to come when I do get the AC5.

PS... everyone moans and groans about the Flex needing a sock to make things work. Well, the AC5 is much more compact and packable then the stinking RP mounting bracket. Poo Poo that, people.

Lastly, the PWs are slightly cheaper... consider the cost of the brackets, and the cost difference just got even greater.

[mattograph]

I love the radiopoppers. I have 4, and they work like a charm. The new brackets make a big difference -- I was always losing the little cold shoes anyway.

[viet]

Had radiopoppers, sold them and bought the new PWs to work with my existing Plus IIs.

Haven't had to reset, upgraded with new firmware, don't even have to use socks on the 580ex, don't know about 580exII. One big advantage over the radiopoppers is the ability to use just one flash for off camera. You don't need a flash to act as master if you only want to do one flash off camera. With the new firmware, and their utility, now all I do is stick it on and start shooting, no more messing with tape, wires, or brackets.

Also the new beta firmware from PW is supposed to help make bouncing your flash more effective. Haven't tried that, but sounds interesting. Here's the article from Rob Galbraith: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/con...=7-10044-10314

[wellyman]

Subscribing....

I too am wanting to get one of these two systems, for the capability of adjusting the power of remote speedlites from the camera, although I don't quite understand how this is done. Distance is very important to me. I'm a little upset to learn that the RP requires a master (580) on the camera hotshoe to operate. This for me is a (potential) waste of an expensive flash as I don't really want a lightsource coming from the camera.

But, I'm scared of the PW's distance issue. I actually bought a Skyport Universal kit but I think I'm going to return it because going back and forth from camera to flashes to adjust power is going to kill me.

Why can't anything be easy?

[drPheta]

Without the AC5, the PW is pretty close range only for any flash that's not a 430EX II. If you're using a 430EX II, you don't have to worry about limited range at all. The AC5 shows some promising results...
see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKd2vLuVfms

For the RP, you can use an ST-E2 and not waste a flash by requiring it on camera.

Either of the systems will work as needed. It's really just a matter of cost and personal preference at this point, IMO.

[wellyman]

Originally Posted by drPheta

Without the AC5, the PW is pretty close range only for any flash that's not a 430EX II. If you're using a 430EX II, you don't have to worry about limited range at all. The AC5 shows some promising results...
see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKd2vLuVfms

For the RP, you can use an ST-E2 and not waste a flash by requiring it on camera.

Either of the systems will work as needed. It's really just a matter of cost and personal preference at this point, IMO.

Well that's good to know about the ST-E2. Not as big/bulky, but still a couple of hundred bucks for it.

[viet]

Originally Posted by drPheta

Without the AC5, the PW is pretty close range only for any flash that's not a 430EX II. If you're using a 430EX II, you don't have to worry about limited range at all. The AC5 shows some promising results...
see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKd2vLuVfms

For the RP, you can use an ST-E2 and not waste a flash by requiring it on camera.

Either of the systems will work as needed. It's really just a matter of cost and personal preference at this point, IMO.

I don't have any problems with my 580EX through a couple of walls or ~100 feet. I haven't tried further than that because I don't have a need to shoot that far, but if there's no problem at ~100 feet, I doubt you'd have problems further. The 580EX II seems to be the most affected when the new PW came out, but I haven't heard much about them after the firmware.

I'm an engineer, and the way I see it. Radiopopper is a clever work around, but it only works as a blind middle man, while PW actually reversed engineer the ttl from Canon so in the future they'll be able to add more features to their products, while radiopoppers will more than likely hit a limit to what they can add to their products. But then, if you work with studio flashes like the Alien Bees, Radiopoppers might be a better solution.

[mattograph]

Originally Posted by viet

I'm an engineer, and the way I see it. Radiopopper is a clever work around, but it only works as a blind middle man, while PW actually reversed engineer the ttl from Canon so in the future they'll be able to add more features to their products, while radiopoppers will more than likely hit a limit to what they can add to their products. But then, if you work with studio flashes like the Alien Bees, Radiopoppers might be a better solution.

I'm not sure I follow what you are saying...... can you expound?

[viet]

Originally Posted by mattograph

I'm not sure I follow what you are saying...... can you expound?

Radiopopper just relays the information blindly, while PW actually reverse/engineer what the signal means and transmit them.

Others can probably explain it better than me, but it basically is this. Radiopopper takes the IR signal from Canon / Nikon / etc. and converts them to radio signal, transmits it to the other end, which converts back to IR, without knowing what the signal means.

PW decodes / reverse-engineers the signal directly, then transmit them to the other end, which tells the flash(es) what to do. Since PW knows what they are transmitting, they can alter, enhance it further, an example is the beta-testing of the new firmware for a better bounced flash that I linked the article above. I hope this helps.

[mattograph]

Ok, so you are saying that PW can actually add features to the flash equation itself. I see what you are saying now. For what its worth -- I concur.

Of course, if Canon releases a new flash, then there is no guarantee that the new features in the PWs can or will be supportable. Of course, you never had them to begin with in the RPs.

BTW -- RPs actually don't take the IR signal -- they interpret the magnetic impulses generated by the flash. Its really quite cool the way they did it. However, that doesn't change your spot on analysis.

[viet]

Originally Posted by mattograph

Ok, so you are saying that PW can actually add features to the flash equation itself. I see what you are saying now. For what its worth -- I concur.

Of course, if Canon releases a new flash, then there is no guarantee that the new features in the PWs can or will be supportable. Of course, you never had them to begin with in the RPs.

BTW -- RPs actually don't take the IR signal -- they interpret the magnetic impulses generated by the flash. Its really quite cool the way they did it. However, that doesn't change your spot on analysis.

I read a bit about that a long time ago but didn't remember for sure. Thanks for pointing that out.

Also FWIW, before PW came out with their ttl triggers, I used RPs whenever I needed high speed sync or ttl, other than that I've been using PWs forever, so it made sense for me to go with one brand once their product reached the matured state. But if the OP or anyone new to the game, they are free to choose whichever works for them. Frankly, if PW didn't come out with their ttl triggers, I'd still be using RPs.

[mattograph]

For me, since I shoot architecture, the RPs gave me full manual control over flashes that are sometime 3 stories above my head. For me they are great. But I bet I could live with PWs.

[wellyman]

Wow, both of you have great points to consider. I also am needing these primarily for architecture photography, as mattograph knows as he's helped me understand the RP option already. The youtube video helped me feel compfortable with the PW RF issue. I currently have a single 430EXII, but my plan is to add 2 580EXII's and have 3 lights to work with at first. Now, I also wish to start working with portraiture, so Ifalso wish to make a decision based on multiple uses, but mainly I'm needing my equip for arch/interiors.

What's the advantage of using RP's with AB's? Interested as I'd like to pickup a strobe for the portraiture education, so this may be helpful in deciding between the two.

I do plan on using full manual controls over the flashes, so I hope both systems can do this. ETTL, nor HSS, won't be used, just remote adjustments/per flash unit is required for me to be happy.

Another plus with PW is the ability to remote trigger with a Sekonic which I also plan to add....

[mattograph]

Originally Posted by wellyman

I do plan on using full manual controls over the flashes, so I hope both systems can do this. ETTL, nor HSS, won't be used, just remote adjustments/per flash unit is required for me to be happy.

Don't assume that too fast. I use ETTL more and more all the time, especially when time is an issue. When you give it a chance, you would be surprised how could it can be. Bottom line is that you may find your style and needs changing over time, so don't make any decisions based on something "you might never do." I learned the hard way that this changes.

FYI -- Joe McNally does all his small flash work TTL. And he's okay.