Canon Digital Photography Forums  

Go Back   Canon Digital Photography Forums > 'Sharing Knowhow' section > Talk About Photography > General Photography Talk
Register Rules FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #1
TheMaggedy
Senior Member
 
TheMaggedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 1,145
Default Wide angle - how much is too much?

I took these shots over the weekend using the 10-22 on my T1i. There is quite a bit of distortion around the edges of some of the photos and the bottom where the people are. Is that part of using wide angle or should I have done something differently?








__________________
5D MkII | 5D MkIII | 24-70 2.8L Mk II | 50L | 85 1.8 | 135L | 70-200 2.8L Mk II | 580 EX II | YN560 x 2 | PW Plus III

http://mairimages.com
TheMaggedy is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #2
neilwood32
Cream of the Crop
 
neilwood32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sitting atop the castle, Edinburgh, Scotland
Posts: 6,223
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

It is part of using a wide angle and to be expected.
__________________
Having a camera makes you no more a photographer than having a hammer and some nails makes you a carpenter - Claude Adams
Keep calm and carry a camera!

My Gear
neilwood32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #3
SkipD
Cream of the Crop
 
SkipD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Southeastern WI, USA
Posts: 19,648
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

The perspective distortion is not due to the focal length per se. It's actually due to being far too close to the buildings and far too low relative to the building's faces to be able to make an image that looks undistorted. If you keep the camera's film plane (sensor) parallel to the building faces, a lot of the "distortion" can be reduced.

If you used a view camera and appropriately changed the position of the lens relative to the film, among other things, you could reduce the perspective distortion. A tilt-shift lens can help with an EOS camera but is nowhere near as flexible as a view camera with all the adjustment it can allow for the lens position. With a fixed lens-film (sensor) orientation there's little you can do in the camera other than relocating the entire camera.

Software can be used today to modify the appearance of the perspective in a digital image.
__________________
Skip Douglas
A few cameras and almost 50 years behind them .....
..... but still learning all the time.
SkipD is online now   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #4
EtherealZee
Member
 
EtherealZee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sydney, Aus
Posts: 364
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

Use the distortion to aid the pics. People don't look too good stretched, but I actually like jamming my 10-22 right up next to buildings and other objects. Learn where the most distortion occurs, and then take advantage of the effect.

These are HDR's, and aren't really my best examples, but they are the only ones I have online





Both those were taken at 10mm, I wouldn't have put a person in either of them, but objects where the scale is not obvious, that sort of thing works well..

Z...
EtherealZee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #5
bohdank
Cream of the Crop
 
bohdank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 14,060
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

Everything to do with realtives angles and less to do with how wide the lens is. The 10-22 actually has very little distortion.

This is at 17mm, with the 17-40 on a FF. No real perspective induced distortion.

__________________
Bohdan - I may be, and probably am, completely wrong.
Gear List

Montreal Concert, Event and Portrait Photographer
Flickr

Last edited by bohdank : 3rd of December 2009 (Thu) at 07:55.
bohdank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #6
PhotosGuy
Moderator
 
PhotosGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: S. E. Michigan
Posts: 68,384
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

Sometimes I use the WA distortion, & sometimes I don't. If you want to minimize it, the thing you have to remember is to not tilt the camera, & to keep the back vertical to avoid keystoning.
What is Keystoning
__________________
FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
www.FrankCizek.com

Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?

New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1280 pixels on any side.
PhotosGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #7
DStanic
Cream of the Crop
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,132
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

As others have said it's all about the perspective. UWA lenses IMO are the most difficult to use, because it's easy to mess up a shot and there is not much you can do about it afterwards. Try to center yourself or shoot at certain angles. Make sure you look carefully through the viewfinder what you see is what you're gonna get.
__________________
5D, 30D, Powershot S100
Tamron 28-75 f2.8.. Sigma 50mm f/1.4 . Canon 85mm f/1.8 . Canon 55-250 IS
http://dstanic.zenfolio.com
DStanic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #8
rdenney
Rick "who is not suited for any one title" Denney
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,399
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

The easiest way to level the camera, by the way, is by putting the horizon right in the middle of the image.

Horizon lower than image center = distortion:



Horizon closer to center of image = less distortion:



The more the camera is tilted, the more the perspective will be exaggerated. What makes the wide-angle lens do this more noticeably is that it allows you stand much closer, and tilt the camera back much farther, to include the subject within the frame. To get that church with a 200mm lens, for example, you'd have been on the other side of town, and were it not for the intervening buildings, the perspective would have been no issue.

In the second image above, the lens was even wider than in the first, 12mm versus 24mm on a full-frame camera. So, it's not the short focal length that is exaggerating the perspective, it's leaning the camera back to see the top of the church. In the second image, I just backed up so I could get the church in the image, but of course it meant I got a lot of car park, too. The alternative is a lens with movements, as Skip described.

Here's a shot where I was standing too close, again as Skip describes. I corrected for the vertical perspective by holding the camera level, but the horizontal perspective is still too exaggerated, because I'm too close. The 12mm lens is what made it possible to be that close:



Rick "Rick's article on camera movements for Canons" Denney
__________________
The List

Last edited by rdenney : 3rd of December 2009 (Thu) at 21:51.
rdenney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd of December 2009 (Thu)   #9
TheMaggedy
Senior Member
 
TheMaggedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 1,145
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

Excellent advice as always from everyone. Thank you. I'll feel better prepared next time.
__________________
5D MkII | 5D MkIII | 24-70 2.8L Mk II | 50L | 85 1.8 | 135L | 70-200 2.8L Mk II | 580 EX II | YN560 x 2 | PW Plus III

http://mairimages.com
TheMaggedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th of December 2009 (Fri)   #10
PhotosGuy
Moderator
 
PhotosGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: S. E. Michigan
Posts: 68,384
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

Quote:
The easiest way to level the camera, by the way, is by putting the horizon right in the middle of the image.
For images like the example, that's true. For closer shots, I try to put the center focus point at my eye level after I stupidly bought one of those little levels for my Nikon.
__________________
FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
www.FrankCizek.com

Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?

New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1280 pixels on any side.
PhotosGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th of December 2009 (Fri)   #11
chauncey
Cream of the Crop
 
chauncey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MI/CO
Posts: 8,359
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

With all due respect to those that have already responded...you don't have the op's difficulties if you take multiple images with a longer lens and photomerge them.
__________________
The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/chauncey43
chauncey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th of December 2009 (Fri)   #12
rdenney
Rick "who is not suited for any one title" Denney
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,399
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
With all due respect to those that have already responded...you don't have the op's difficulties if you take multiple images with a longer lens and photomerge them.
Sure you do. The back of the camera still has to be vertical, or you have to distort the image in software (which is what Photomerge does). You could also take the images he made and correct the perspective using something like Panotools (or even the perspective envelope transformation in Photoshop), but again there would be a lot of pixel interpolation going on.

And it isn't that easy. I have found that Photomerge basically sucks at aligning images. In this image...



...I had a single, 6x12 transparency made in one exposure using an ultra-wide lens in my view camera. My Nikon film scanner only scans up to 6x9, however, so I scanned this as two 6x7 images with plenty of overlap. The two scans were absolutely identical in scanner parameters, and since they came from the same exposure, they were identical in the overlapped areas down to the pixel. But when I tried to merge them with Photomerge, I found that it missed by a very large margin in aligning the images, and I had to do it manually (not easy with a file that ended up with about 57 megapixels).

And I had to manually go in and set merge points when putting these nine images together. It was worth the trouble, but it took many hours to get it right. With these, the trees still needed to be vertical, so I carefully leveled the camera to eliminate vertical perspective convergence. But horizontal perspective was handled by the cylindrical panoramic projection, though that required LOTS of pixel interpolation.



These tools seem to have been designed for images for web display--at web resolutions the automatic merges were acceptable. But for large prints, a miss is as good as a mile, and they missed (or I didn't know how to use them, despite following instructions from experts carefully).

Rick "not to mention the problem of blending clouds that moved between exposures" Denney
__________________
The List
rdenney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th of December 2009 (Fri)   #13
chauncey
Cream of the Crop
 
chauncey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MI/CO
Posts: 8,359
Default Re: Wide angle - how much is too much?

Denney, I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you have those difficulties. This was done in CS4 from about 10 handheld images, 1Ds MkIII with a 300 f/2.8 lens.



Was done automatically in CS4's photomerge.

On this one, 4 images with the aforementioned body and lens, I did apply manual alignment.


.
__________________
The things you do for yourself die with you, the things you do for others live forever.
A man's worth should be judged, not when he basks in the sun, but how he faces the storm.

My stuff...http://1x.com/member/chauncey43
chauncey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The new nikon wide angle zoom sharper than any canon wide angle lens Walle Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 17 28th of December 2008 (Sun) 16:07
Wide Angle lens needs wide angle filters? big_apple_ken Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 3 16th of May 2008 (Fri) 15:24
Sample Portrait with wide angle vs. tele angle stjuste Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 14 6th of May 2006 (Sat) 18:08


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This forum is not affiliated with Canon in any way and is run as a free user helpsite by Pekka Saarinen, Helsinki Finland. You will need to register in order to be able to post messages. Cookies are required for registering and posting. HTML in messages is not allowed, plain website addresses are automatically made active by the board.