New Softbox design, and research.

[Digital_zen]

Hi, guys I have been a member on the forums here for a while but have mostly been a reader, though I try to offer help and ask good questions as often as I can.
I am working on some new softbox designs and would like to share the first with you all, and perhaps seek funding (in the form of pre-ordering, so you would actually get one of the first models that I build).
The revolutionary thing about my new design is it's thin profile, the one that I have built is 20"X24"X less than 3" thick! The flash mounts on the bottom (redesigning now to flip the whole thing over, so that the flash is on top, in case of the box dropping) so the back is completely flat and the box can be hung flat against a wall, tree, etc. The front panel will eventually open out from the top, to create a huge bounce surface that will still create a nice pool of soft light directly in front of the box, while also bouncing some light up and around interior areas.
The mkI is made from a developing tray and Plexiglas, but the mkII will be made from modified tent type poles, and fabric and will break down to be more easily stored and carried.
The mkII should be lightweight enough to be comfortably hand held while shooting, making it another option for events and other on the fly situations.
Like I say this first one works nicely but I am in need of funds to move on to the mkII model, there will be different sizes from somewhere around 12"x12"x 2.5" to as large as I can make my Vivitar 285hv reach (with the use of reflective surfaces and baffles and maybe some other engineering trickery.
I have included a couple of shots so that you can kind of see what the thing looks like, and the type of light that it produces on location,(2nd shot) 285hv in the Light Panel as main and the sun as a hair light (this was actually a shot from a paid shoot that I did a few weeks ago, they loved the shots).
If any one is interested or would like to see more shots of the "Light Panel" or has an idea for a better name, please let me know.
You can message me here and I'll give you my email address.
Thanks,
Jeremy C.

[puzzle]

great Idea Jez, i don't know enough about engineering to know whether or not this will work as well as a conventional softbox but I think you may be onto something here with your "light panels" and I wish you the best of luck ... in regards to funding, I'm sorry but I think the shipping alone will wipe me out.

[bobbyz]

1. How is this better than current softbox available for the hot shoe flash, like apollo or the exybox?

2. How do you mount the hot shoe flash?

3. How even the coverage particularly when flash coming from the side?

4. How much light loss?

[dmward]

Add to above questions;

How even is light across the front panel?

The image of the couple has relatively sharp shadow edges which imply a small light source compared to them.

This image illustrates where I would find your softbox most useful.

This one the flash fill was provided by a 580EX on camera. Shadows are sharp edged, similar to yours. Would have liked to use a softer source camera left but it was too windy for my shoot through.

[Digital_zen]

Hi Bobby, you raise some good questions, I'll try my best to answer them, based on my experience with the mkI, though there will be significant changes made in the mkII model to cause the answers to these questions to be quite different.
1. This unit will be very thin compared to the lighting surface, the mkI is less than 3 inches thick, which will most likely remain to be about the same though might could a bit thinner with the mkII. While the mkI is a bit heavy, being constructed from thick PVC type plastic and Plexiglas, very rugged but heavy.
2. Right now the mount is basically a slide in type hole in the bottom, with a bit of plastic to spin down over the flash head to keep it from sliding back out. This will have to be revised based on other types of flash heads as the 285 has a gel-holder/Fresnel lens piece built in at the front of the flash head so it works quite well (has never fallen out). The mkII will have a tension-cradle type mount, with elastic and Velcro, and the frame of the box will actually have pieces that surround the flash head, and hold it firmly in place.
3. The coverage seems to be somewhat limited but can be improved through baffles, internal bounce strips and the use of a more reflective surfaces (I plan to re purpose windshield sun shade material, the crinkled chrome kind) in certain areas and possibly internal light focusing Fresnel lenses to pull more light into the stubborn areas.
4. I've not done tests yet, but it seems to be around 2-2.5 stops. Again this number will improve with the mkII I hope to get it to around 1 stop with the more reflective material and intensification of the light, through focusing.
I hope this answers your questions and I will do exposure tests soon, though I would really rather hold off as the numbers will not line up at all across the mkI and mkII specs.

[Digital_zen]

David, I actually answered question 3 above as if that was what was being asked, if not Bobby please let me know.

[dmward]

I like the idea of a shallow large light modifier for use with speedlites.
For my purposes it has to have even lighting across its front panel since that is the effective light source.
Also, absorbing more than about a stop to a stop and 1/4 is stealing too much light.

Using the HSS feature on the Canon Speedlites is a significant benefit outside, but that also reduces effective light output. A modifier that steals too much becomes worthless.

And, without the HSS TTL benefit, its just as easy to use a more powerful source. i.e. QFlash or AB with battery pack.

Keep working on this, just wanted you to understand what would motivate me to buy.

[J Kacey]

I'm curious how much funding you are proposing each prospective buyer send you?
When will you be sending them the finished product?

[Digital_zen]

J. I'd say a decent starting price for these would be around $200 US for a 20"x24" and the first buyers could expect to receive a finished product within 8 weeks. That time would of course drastically decrease once I build the first one or two and do my tests and refinements with those.

[TMR Design]

It seems that the problem with designs like this is that the light isn't even and the falloff is rather rapid from the actual light source to other parts of the box. In a way this is a similar design with a similar problem that the Ray Flash has in terms of a hot spot and rapid falloff.

Are you planning on engineering something internally that will reflect or distribute the light more evenly? If so that's quite an undertaking. More than likely the best way to approach it would be to have a secondary flash on the other short side of the box but it's still going to take more than that to even things out.

I don't mean to rain on your parade but this is the eternal problem with designs like this and the reason why we don't see modifiers like this except for the fluorescent devices. Interfit makes a flat panel integrated light and modifier that produces very soft light but it's expensive and small.

[TMR Design]

Originally Posted by Digital_zen

4. I've not done tests yet, but it seems to be around 2-2.5 stops. Again this number will improve with the mkII I hope to get it to around 1 stop with the more reflective material and intensification of the light, through focusing.

That's far too much light to lose and the falloff is too rapid to really be useful, in my opinion. Not to mention the high price.

If I were you I wouldn't be so eager to sell and ship this design before you worked out the bugs and came up with something much more efficient that produced even light. I just assume set up an umbrella before using a device like this.

Sorry.

[Digital_zen]

The mkI is basically a mock-up anyone who buys one will get the cloth over frame type mkII. And yes I will be working with focusing and baffle devices inside the box to produce an even light across the front surface, which will be much more transparent than the plexi used in the mkI.

[TMR Design]

Originally Posted by Digital_zen

The mkI is basically a mock-up anyone who buys one will get the cloth over frame type mkII. And yes I will be working with focusing and baffle devices inside the box to produce an even light across the front surface, which will be much more transparent than the plexi used in the mkI.

All well and good but $200 for a mockup with bugs, even if they receive the next version for free. I don't know man. It doesn't sound good to me and I wouldn't be selling these until you had a real version that worked as it should.

Sounds like you're jumping the gun and overcharging for a device that hasn't been engineered properly. Seriously, why not make something that really works as it should? And your profit margin is through the roof or you're just asking others to fund research and development for you.

[NaKiD EyE]

Originally Posted by Digital_zen

J. I'd say a decent starting price for these would be around $200 US for a 20"x24" and the first buyers could expect to receive a finished product within 8 weeks. That time would of course drastically decrease once I build the first one or two and do my tests and refinements with those.

umm ouch. sorry but realistically speaking you would be lucky for someone to buy an unfinished product at that price or at any price for that matter...

[NaKiD EyE]

and a developing tray? lol i can just see this thing breaking on it's first location shot. my softboxes fold and are easy to travel with... this one not so much. So that makes the size benefit useless imo.