A tad frustrated...No purchases on track day

[DC Fan]

Originally Posted by Apexer

On line, via my Zenfolio account. I stopped and chatted up a few drivers, handed out some business cards, trying very hard not to interfere with race prep.

That point may be more important to "no purchases" than the perceived quality of the images. From event photo sales experience: the best place to make a sale, for all intents the only place to make a sale, is at the event. People often ask for a way to order an image after they've gone home, but they don't usually follow up with a purchase.

The best way to make those sales is to make prints available at the events. That means hauling a computer and printer to the event and making contact sheets and prints on the spot. Sometimes it means having your own trailer and generator so you don't have to depend on using the track's facilities. It's expensive and means a lot of work, but you have to strike while the iron is hot, and it's far too cold to wait for orders after an event is over. Letting people go home without giving them an easy opportunity to buy a print at the event passes up your best chance to make money. In event photography, you're dealing in instant gratification, not high art.

[Apexer]

Originally Posted by DC Fan

That point may be more important to "no purchases" than the perceived quality of the images. From event photo sales experience: the best place to make a sale, for all intents the only place to make a sale, is at the event. People often ask for a way to order an image after they've gone home, but they don't usually follow up with a purchase.

The best way to make those sales is to make prints available at the events. That means hauling a computer and printer to the event and making contact sheets and prints on the spot. Sometimes it means having your own trailer and generator so you don't have to depend on using the track's facilities. It's expensive and means a lot of work, but you have to strike while the iron is hot, and it's far too cold to wait for orders after an event is over. Letting people go home without giving them an easy opportunity to buy a print at the event passes up your best chance to make money. In event photography, you're dealing in instant gratification, not high art.

Are you speaking from experience? Have you tried this?

[DC Fan]

Originally Posted by Apexer

Are you speaking from experience? Have you tried this?

Yes. Definitely. Won't claim experience if it hasn't happened.

"From event photo sales experience" means having traveled from California to Massachusetts and parts between to sell pictures at events. People often ask how to order pictures after the event, but the orders never come.

There's a reason that photo vendors, from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to the GNCC off-road series to countless small tracks, put extra effort to make pictures available at the track, at the race, on the spot. The best place to make picture sales is at the event, and you need to make the fresh product available right away.

One acquaintance who has found the way to make event sales work brings at least two Olympus dye-sublimation printers to each race he works. Another organization has a similar setup right at trackside, where no one can miss the pictures. They work hard to make fresh samples available of the day's action, hour by hour, so no one can miss the opportunity to purchase their products.

Again: the sames of event pictures are impulse purchases. If you give potential customers too much reason to not see what you have available and don't work to make sales at the track. you won't make sales later on.

[Methodical]

Sounds like he will need a staff of workers...at least one other person or hustle and make the prints himself.

Originally Posted by DC Fan

Yes. Definitely. Won't claim experience if it hasn't happened.

"From event photo sales experience" means having traveled from California to Massachusetts and parts between to sell pictures at events. People often ask how to order pictures after the event, but the orders never come.

There's a reason that photo vendors, from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to the GNCC off-road series to countless small tracks, put extra effort to make pictures available at the track, at the race, on the spot. The best place to make picture sales is at the event, and you need to make the fresh product available right away.

One acquaintance who has found the way to make event sales work brings at least two Olympus dye-sublimation printers to each race he works. Another organization has a similar setup right at trackside, where no one can miss the pictures. They work hard to make fresh samples available of the day's action, hour by hour, so no one can miss the opportunity to purchase their products.

Again: the sames of event pictures are impulse purchases. If you give potential customers too much reason to not see what you have available and don't work to make sales at the track. you won't make sales later on.

[Peacefield]

I'm coming late to this thread but thought I'd chime in. I'm always doing vintage races (one is coming to NJ this weekend). Everytime, I've made my images available to the drivers. So far, I've sold exactly, ummm, NO images! You have to remember, if these people have the kind of money that it takes to not only race but race in vintage automobiles, they and/or one of their friends probably have a nice camera, too. They almost certainly already have a ton of images of themselves and their cars tooling around the track. So to make a sale, the images will need to be absolutely stunning or unusual. Your images are very nice, but nothing that I would characterize as stunning or unusual.

As others have suggested, your site also could stand to be organized better as well as have more visual appeal. It looks like it's Zenfolio? If so, that's what I use too and they've had some spectacular upgrades recently that will allow you to take better control over how your site looks and works; it's worth the time to consider what those capabilities can do for you.

Finally, I would suggest lower print prices. Your prices aren't too high for the stunning and unusual, but probably a little off the mark for the more ordinary. I'm a wedding photographer who shoots motorsports for giggles. I don't sell any motorsports, but I sell A LOT of wedding prints, more than many of my contemporaries. That is due in part because I price them more agressively. I'd rather sell 100 8x10's per wedding at $7.99 then sell 10 at $17.99.

And back to motorsports, I imagine you do it for the same reason we all do it; it's FUN! If you sell a few, the money is probably not as valuable as the acknowledgment by those who are willing to pay for them that you done good. And if you don't sell any, well, at least it was still fun.

All offered in a cordial spirit, of course.

[Apexer]

Thanks to all for your time.

Peacefield nailed it as far as shooting motorsports out of passion v. profit, but.....it is nice to get the confirmation of your work.

I will try the CC offered here, other than selling at the venue. At this stage of the game its just not financially or schedule friendly. My plan is to focus more on photography when I retire in 8 years and use "now" to study and hone the craft.

[Methodical]

How ironic. That's how I feel. I'd like to do sports photography one day so I will sharpen up now and maybe go hard when I retire...in 12 years. Whereas wildlife and bird photography is my passions and past time...relaxation.

Originally Posted by Apexer

...At this stage of the game its just not financially or schedule friendly. My plan is to focus more on photography when I retire in 8 years and use "now" to study and hone the craft.

[Apexer]

Originally Posted by Methodical

How ironic. That's how I feel. I'd like to do sports photography one day so I will sharpen up now and maybe go hard when I retire...in 12 years. Whereas wildlife and bird photography is my passions and past time...relaxation.

Hmmm...this trend might make a good discussion thread all by itself - or maybe it has been a topic in the past.

Thanks again, y'all rock. = )

[Flores]

I've seen one fellow at the track that has an interesting tack: an 8x10 is $85 at the event. or you can have a CD with all your shots for $100.

He sells a LOT of CDs. Of course, he also has some help. he essentially has identified what people want, put a price on it, and offered his services in a way that causes the vast majority of his customers to buy what he is setup to easily sell. He has a helper in his trailer sorting pics as they come in, and usually has a nice line of folks wanting to preview the shots before buying a CD and taking it home. (He got $100 of my money )

business 101

[int2str]

Apexer, a few more points about your shots:

Most of them (almost all, actually) are direct side shots. They lack some "pop" and are overall not all that interesting. If I was the one driving, I would not buy the images either. I think the frontal or 3/4 shots coming out of a corner are much more interesting. Try to get more of those kinds of shots and move around as suggested.

Also, if you're not selling right at the track, maybe some quick post-processing to add some "pop" would be in order?

[int2str]

This is the kind of angle I'm talking about (not a good example for post processing, though):

[Flores]

the less the car looks like it's parked on the track, the better!

[Apexer]

Originally Posted by Flores

the less the car looks like it's parked on the track, the better!

Exactly.

I guess I like a wider shot that gives context to where the car is, and I like the background blurred. But its not about me, its what the customer wants. I love the challenge of panning and I like the effect. I see it as a niche in a market that is FLOODED with images like the one directly above. There were two other photographers there and all they did ( that I saw ) was park at an entrance to a corner and capture cars head on in the front straight, or into / out of a turn. I was the only one who took shots in the pits also. I kicked myself for not doing more shooting in the pits - it was fun and its own challenge.

I met one of the photographers and he said he has been shooting local racers for over 20 years. He is a great guy and his work is fantastic. The vast majority of his work is just like the shot above, which reinforced my drive to focus on panning.

I need to get in tighter to please the customer and my compadres here ( your opinions are valued ). I look forward to the greater challenge of a tighter shot as well.

[int2str]

Originally Posted by Apexer

Exactly.
I guess I like a wider shot that gives context to where the car is, and I like the background blurred.

You totally missed the point. I was showing an angle, not a "great picture". You are free to drag the shutter/pan in a turn as well. Here's an example:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...3-012WPPro.jpg

But its not about me, its what the customer wants. I love the challenge of panning and I like the effect.

I hope you see the contradiction in those two sentences

I see it as a niche in a market that is FLOODED with images like the one directly above. There were two other photographers there and all they did ( that I saw ) was park at an entrance to a corner and capture cars head on in the front straight, or into / out of a turn.

Maybe they made the sale?
You've been defensive about every bit of advice given here, yet you claim you're frustrated... Apparently there's nothing wrong with your pictures, your customers are just not "getting it", huh?

I'm behind a steering wheel/handle bars much more than I'm behind the camera. I can give you the perspective from the buyer side of things. And honestly, I would not consider buying your shots for a second.

Panning shots are great - when done right. Frankly, yours are not. To be bold, your panning shots look slightly better than snapshots. Here's an example of a panning shot that I'd gladly buy (if it was of me):

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i4...3-011WPPro.jpg

Though I would ask the photographer to crop it a bit tighter.

I met one of the photographers and he said he has been shooting local racers for over 20 years. He is a great guy and his work is fantastic. The vast majority of his work is just like the shot above, which reinforced my drive to focus on panning.

Everybody (including me) said to move around. If I do a track event (which I do), sure I like panning shots, but I'd also want one where you could actually see that it was me at the wheel.

You're way to married to your one little panning shot - which you've far from perfected. Go tighter and mix it up.

Or keep being defensive and wait for your sales

[Apexer]

If we were at a table discussing this I dont think I would have come across as defensive. Have a good one.

Mark