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Thread started 24 May 2010 (Monday) 09:47
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When to use Mirror Lock Up?

 
juanpafer
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If your shutter speed is fast you don't need it, and if your exposure is several seconds long the impact is going to be minimum.
Is there a formula that involves FL and SS (and/or something else) to calculate the sweet spot where you should use MLU?
Thanks,

May 24, 2010 09:47

Juan

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Sikor7
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I don't know of any formula but I have seen some tests done at about 1/60 and the effect of the mirror slapping did affect the sharpness of the shot. The mirror slap is pretty violent if you have ever seen it in slow motion. Myself, I have only used it a handful of times - like shooting the moon on a tripod. I think you may have to do your own tests on a tripod to see at what shutter speed your shot is being affected.

May 24, 2010 11:18

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ken_vs_ryu
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when you can.

May 24, 2010 11:21

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AJSJones
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If you are shooting for ultimate sharpness,then ken's right: whenever you can!
I shoot landscape and automatically use it since I'm mostly on a tripod and often have the smallest feasible aperture (balance diffraction and DoF) and low ISO therefore longish shutterspeeds. Otherwise if my SS drops below about 1/60 ish I automatically think tripod and MLU. Even for longer exposures, I still use it just be "safe" Exposures beyond 30 sec are rare for me. I don't recall where but I saw a "between 1/30 sec and 5 sec" is where it's super critical.

With cameras like the 7D and large sensor/small pixels, if you want to get the most out of those pixels in terms of large print, MLU is definitely your friend - more so than with lower MP counts :D

May 24, 2010 13:19

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juanpafer
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Thanks for your comments!

May 24, 2010 14:09

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Lowner
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Anything between 2 seconds and anything measured in 10ths will benefit. I would tend to use it on a tripod automatically but for Canons nightmare selection procedure via the custom functions.

May 24, 2010 14:14 as a reply to juanpafer's post 4 minutes earlier.

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Or if your taking a picture of the ISS. This has to be the best example I have ever seen of mirror slap in action.

http://photography-on-the.net ...php?p=9471184&postc​ount=8

if you do the math, the image is an 8 second exposure. the squiggle is very pronounced for a full second and doesn't completely dampen for another. So, any long shot with moving targets is a MLU candidate.

May 24, 2010 14:18

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Snydremark
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Keep in mind that if you use Live View, you're getting MLU by default. So if you have it on a tripod, LV is a nice way to go about things.

May 24, 2010 14:19 as a reply to Lowner's post 4 minutes earlier.

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juanpafer
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gjl711 wrote in post #10237628external link
Or if your taking a picture of the ISS. This has to be the best example I have ever seen of mirror slap in action.

http://photography-on-the.net ...php?p=9471184&postc​ount=8

if you do the math, the image is an 8 second exposure. the squiggle is very pronounced for a full second and doesn't completely dampen for another. So, any long shot with moving targets is a MLU candidate.

That makes it visually clear. Thanks gjl

Even though it should vary with different cameras and different support systems Richard should be right about the 1/xx ans 2s...

Eric: I am using LV as a shortcut to MLU. I read somewhere that this is not universal and that some models don't have the same cycle for MLU. Luckily it works for the 7D.

Looks like I will have to do some testing on my own gear.
Thanks guys.

May 24, 2010 16:13

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juanpafer
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I found this video. The mirror slap is pretty violent.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=7CHgBuKmfogexternal link

May 24, 2010 16:27

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May 24, 2010 16:29

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I am using LV as a shortcut to MLU. I read somewhere that this is not universal and that some models don't have the same cycle for MLU. Luckily it works for the 7D.

It has to be the same for every model. You can't have LV with a mirror in front of the sensor.

May 24, 2010 16:44

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juanpafer
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tzalman wrote in post #10238547external link
It has to be the same for every model. You can't have LV with a mirror in front of the sensor.

I have to disagree.

Taken from Juza Nature Photography:

Different types of Live View and MLU
Nearly all cameras have Live View, but there are four main different types of Live View.
A) The most advanced Live View implementatio​ns (currently found in the Canon 7D and 5DII) allow to shoot using the electronic first curtain; in other words, when you press the shutter the camera reset electronically the sensor to begin the exposure, then it closes the physical shutter curtain to end the exposure. With this kind of live view, you no longer need MLU.

B) Another implementation of live view is found into older Canon cameras (1DIII, 1DsIII). These cameras don't have the electronic first curtain; when you press the shutter the camera closes the physical curtain to reset the sensor, it opens the curtain to begin the exposure and it closes again the curtain the end the exposure. With this kind of live view, you still need MLU.

C) A third implementation of live view if found into Nikon and Olympus SLR cameras. These cameras don't have the electronic first curtain; when you press the shutter the camera closes the physical curtain and turns down the mirror, then it raises the mirror, it opens the curtain to begin the exposure and it closes again the curtain the end the exposure. With this kind of live view, you still need MLU; moreover, it has a slight shutter delay (from 1/2" to 1").

D) Some cameras don't have mirror at all. Of course, in these cameras you don't need MLU! That said, the only camera of this type currently in production - the Panasonic G1 - has not electronic first curtain, so it may give the same problems of "type B" live view.

May 24, 2010 21:53

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Bill ­ Boehme
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juanpafer wrote in post #10240090external link
I have to disagree.

Taken from Juza Nature Photography:

Different types of Live View and MLU
Nearly all cameras have Live View, but there are four main different types of Live View.
A) The most advanced Live View implementations (currently found in the Canon 7D and 5DII) allow to shoot using the electronic first curtain; in other words, when you press the shutter the camera reset electronically the sensor to begin the exposure, then it closes the physical shutter curtain to end the exposure. With this kind of live view, you no longer need MLU.

B) Another implementation of live view is found into older Canon cameras (1DIII, 1DsIII). These cameras don't have the electronic first curtain; when you press the shutter the camera closes the physical curtain to reset the sensor, it opens the curtain to begin the exposure and it closes again the curtain the end the exposure. With this kind of live view, you still need MLU.

C) A third implementation of live view if found into Nikon and Olympus SLR cameras. These cameras don't have the electronic first curtain; when you press the shutter the camera closes the physical curtain and turns down the mirror, then it raises the mirror, it opens the curtain to begin the exposure and it closes again the curtain the end the exposure. With this kind of live view, you still need MLU; moreover, it has a slight shutter delay (from 1/2" to 1").

D) Some cameras don't have mirror at all. Of course, in these cameras you don't need MLU! That said, the only camera of this type currently in production - the Panasonic G1 - has not electronic first curtain, so it may give the same problems of "type B" live view.


It sounds to me like the author of that piece might be confusing the shutter curtain with locking up the reflex mirror based on the way that the explanation is worded. If the explanation of example 3 is correct then I would agree, but it sure does seem "interesting" to flip the mirror up and down unless that is the only way to get metering and perhaps focus for the shot. I do not see how example 2 is any different than example 1 as far as mirror slap would be concerned.

BTW, I use MLU for astro and macro images. I also use it at various other times when getting the ultimate sharpness is important. This assumes that one has a lens that is razor sharp, otherwise, it might just be a futile exercise.

May 24, 2010 22:18

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apersson850
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I agree with Bill.

May 24, 2010 23:18 as a reply to Bill Boehme's post 59 minutes earlier.

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