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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting
Thread started 25 Jun 2010 (Friday) 09:24
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430ex and umbrella?

 
Joect541
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Jun 25, 2010 09:24 |  #1

OK. So I have looked around on the forum and found questions close to this but not as simply asked and not this question specificaly. I am wanting to use my 430ex with an umbrella (since you cool cats got my flash off camera by recomending flash zebra!) I know nothing about umbrellas.

I am wanting to be able to start doing some full body portraiture/learning. I have looked at umbrellas at B&H and in the product description they tell you what the particular size is good for. None of them claim to be good for full body until 60". I guess I have two questions:

(1) Can you fairly easily pull off (without a degree in lighting) the correct exposure on a full body shot with anything smaller than a 60"? and

(2) Will my 430ex be able to do the job with a 60".

I guess the keys here are I am unable to get a bigger strobe anytime soon so I will be working with my 430ex, I know I want to use an umbrella because of the extremely low cost, and I know I want to be able to expose for full body.

You all have always been there for me when I have had questions, and I cannot thank you enough.:)


Happy shooting! Joe

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enrigonz
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Jun 25, 2010 09:31 |  #2

Don't see why you wouldn't, you'll probably need to set your light further back and make sure the umbrella shaft is all the way back, in other words, have the flash head as far as you can from the umbrella. Are you shooting bounce/reflective or through an umbrella? In either case, yes it can be done, you'll probably need to make sure your shutter and aperture is set to capture as much light as you need for a full body with this setting. Nothing I can tell you would be better explained than in the following site:

http://strobist.blogsp​ot.com/2006/03/lightin​g-101.htmlexternal link


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Joect541
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Jun 25, 2010 09:53 |  #3

Opps forgot. Yes I plan for most of it to be reflective. Might play a little with shoot through though.
Def will read the link, enrigonz. Thanks.


Happy shooting! Joe

30D, 430ex, Kit Lens, Canon 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM. Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon S3 IS

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matonanjin
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Jun 25, 2010 09:58 |  #4

"Cool cats"? Is this expression coming back?:lol:


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gonzogolf
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Jun 25, 2010 10:02 |  #5

Like the strobist site says, anything above 45 or so and you are probably not gaining anything with a hotshoe flash. Keep in mind that the product descriptions are kind of based on a perfect world scenario. Any of the umbrellas can cast a circle of light large enough to light up a full body shot, all you have to do is back the light up a bit. The farther away you move the light, the less soft the light is so there are some tradeoffs. But the bottom line is the focused lens on your speedlite can spread enough to fill a 45ish inch umbrella so adding one even larger may not be that helpful.




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bobbyz
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Jun 25, 2010 10:07 |  #6

Filling 60" shouldn't be a problem if you use wide angle panel (not sure if 430ex comes with it). I only tested with 580 ex II. But it does rob you of power.

When using 580 ex at 1/4 power, I was able to get f2.8 at ISO100 at a distance of 6' from the front face of the umbrella. Umbrella was in reflective mode. This was without the wide angle diffuser. Using it will lower by 1 stop I guess.


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gonzogolf
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Jun 25, 2010 10:09 |  #7

bobbyz wrote in post #10424862external link
Filling 60" shouldn't be a problem if you use wide angle panel (not sure if 430ex comes with it). I only tested with 580 ex II. But it does rob you of power.

When using 580 ex at 1/4 power, I was able to get f2.8 at ISO100 at a distance of 6' from the front face of the umbrella. Umbrella was in reflective mode. This was without the wide angle diffuser. Using it will lower by 1 stop I guess.

And reduce that by another stop as the 430ex is about a stop less power. It can be done, just not sure its worth the loss.




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yogestee
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Jun 25, 2010 10:37 as a reply to gonzogolf's post |  #8

I shoot with my 430EX all the time using an umbrella or softbox.. I prefer to shoot through rather than bounce out..

Works well for me..


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enrigonz
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Jun 25, 2010 12:35 |  #9

yogestee wrote in post #10425010external link
I shoot with my 430EX all the time using an umbrella or softbox.. I prefer to shoot through rather than bounce out..

Works well for me..

Yeah, me too, actually the strobist site mentions on an update that he actually gets better results shooting through instead of bouncing. OP, just like you mentioned..... try shooting both ways and see what looks better to you.


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Edshropshire
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Jun 25, 2010 13:18 |  #10

I have been using a 45 and find it works good. I have have been using it with a 580 MKII and a 430 EX II. I have done full body without any problems.

I recently bought a strobist kit on Amazon and it has been fun to play with. The kit came with two small shoot through umbrellas, but I also ordered some bigger bounce umbrellas.

Ed


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Wilt
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Jun 25, 2010 15:08 |  #11

Filling any umbrella is a matter of being able to position a flash with 24mm angle of coverage (for full frame format), where distance from flash to the surface of the umbrella (at the center) is equal to the diameter of the umbrella...e.g. flash at 36" for 36" umbrella, flash at 60" for 60" umbrella. If the shaft of the umbrella is too short to allow it to be inserted into the light stand holder which also supports the umbrella, then you are generally not going to fill the umbrella to its edges. Simple trigonometry, for those who studied it in high school.


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cheerio
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Jun 25, 2010 15:58 |  #12

Edshropshire wrote in post #10425981 (external link)
I have been using a 45 and find it works good. I have have been using it with a 580 MKII and a 430 EX II. I have done full body without any problems.

I recently bought a strobist kit on Amazon and it has been fun to play with. The kit came with two small shoot through umbrellas, but I also ordered some bigger bounce umbrellas.

Ed


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zerovision
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Jun 25, 2010 16:11 |  #13

I just recently bought two Photoflex, and they work great. Easy to remove the black for shoot thru and the are only $37 each. I picked these because of the great reviews and the price. They are huge so make sure you have a sturdy light stand and you might consider sand bags as well.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com ...G/Photoflex_UM_RUT6​0.htmlexternal link


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Joect541
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Jun 27, 2010 05:04 |  #14

"Cool cats"? Is this expression coming back?

I am bringing it back. :D

Like the strobist site says, anything above 45 or so and you are probably not gaining anything with a hotshoe flash. Keep in mind that the product descriptions are kind of based on a perfect world scenario. Any of the umbrellas can cast a circle of light large enough to light up a full body shot, all you have to do is back the light up a bit. The farther away you move the light, the less soft the light is so there are some tradeoffs. But the bottom line is the focused lens on your speedlite can spread enough to fill a 45ish inch umbrella so adding one even larger may not be that helpful.

and

I have been using a 45 and find it works good. I have have been using it with a 580 MKII and a 430 EX II. I have done full body without any problems.


I will probably go with the 45's then. I finally had time to read a little of the strobist site, and also, it would be nice to be able to use a smaller umbrella. I would have thought the further away you move the light the softer it would be. Strange that it is the other way around. I will try both shoot through and reflective and see what I like best.


Happy shooting! Joe

30D, 430ex, Kit Lens, Canon 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM. Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon S3 IS

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430ex and umbrella?
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