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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk
Thread started 30 Jun 2010 (Wednesday) 08:26
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Solving Camera/Lens Hypochondria

 
scobols
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Jun 30, 2010 08:26 |  #1

An interesting blog post regarding the "bad" lens or camera you just bought/almost bought/thought about buying:

http://photofocus.com ...-cameralens-hypochondria/external link

Scott


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Kento
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Jun 30, 2010 08:30 |  #2

Hahaha, nice article, totally agree with it.... glad somebody finely said it!


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saea501
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Jun 30, 2010 10:22 as a reply to Kento's post |  #3

Man....truer words were never spoken.

Sounds like Ken Roc............well, you know who.


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Gregg.Siam
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Jun 30, 2010 10:43 as a reply to saea501's post |  #4

yeah, I used to tell people the same thing when I was giving advise on buying a handgun. Most modern guns are far more accurate than what people can shoot.


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yogestee
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Jun 30, 2010 11:20 as a reply to Gregg.Siam's post |  #5

I share the same views as expressed in the article..The Internet is a rumour mill..

I go away shaking my head when I read, "I've had three copies of lens XYZ and I still can't get sharp images.. What's wrong with this lens?"

You are a dill brother,, look at your shooting techniques:rolleyes:


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yourdoinitwrong
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Jun 30, 2010 11:27 as a reply to yogestee's post |  #6

What is he talking about? I've never seen anything like that here........ :rolleyes:


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 30, 2010 11:37 |  #7

Yes, I agree with most of what he says,

However I feel the writing style puts the author as being guilty of the same basic issue he is ranting against.
Not the specifics, but the root of the larger issue. That is exaggeration. (note I say exaggeration, and NOT gross over exaggeration for example, you'll soon grasp why :) )

Sentences like this one for example;
98% of ALL cameras and ALL lenses are better than 99% of ALL photographers! Yes, VERY, VERY rarely, a camera may ship with extremely minor faults. It may even back focus by 1/10th of a millimeter.

Now if the sentence read;
98% of ALL cameras and ALL lenses are better than 99% of ALL photographers! Yes, rarely, a camera will ship with faults.

....then I'd have no counter complaint, but his tendency is identical to the people and issues which he is complaining about in the article. that is exaggeration, and removing, or at least diminishing strongly, the possibilities of what he believes to be the case being incorrect.

With that sentence as I interpret it, he is saying that bad equipment never happens, and even when it does it is so small a factor that we should not notice it and live with it. He absolutely dismisses the possibility of a piece of gear being shipped so bad it is useless. Seriously, read that sentence again.

IMHO, that type of posturing blows his case wide open to the same ridicule he is posting.

Here on POTN we are seeing a lot of both sides,. and frankly as some may have seen, I am not too happy with the assumption that someone is a "hypochondriac tool" the moment someone comes here to ask advice feeling they may have bad equipment.

The answer is that neither case of exaggeration, of swinging to far to either one direction, is the correct approach.

We have to allow for both (or more) possibilities being valid when a thread like the one the author is ranting against, is posted.

We also need to remember that the reason for this forum is to aid people that are having these issue
,. and insulting them is never a solid way to bring someone around to the right way of thinking, and it's against the forums rules.

ie: even the hypochondriac tool needs to be steered the right way, and insulting them or dismissing them is never going to do it.

Yes, when a new member, a nOOb if you like, posts a question with a title that appears inflammatory, followed with a post that removes the possibility of human error, the odds are at least even that the OP is in the wrong,. and is absolutely in the wrong in how they have positioned the question on a forum.

But THEY are the newcomer, they don't know this yet, and WE should know better than to take the bait and react with similar opposing rhetoric based on identically unscientific reactionary emotional response. (like the author of this article is doing)

A new forum member simply may not know yet how to pose a question without bringing in aspects that will incite.
We on the other hand, should know,.. and react accordingly to bring things to a positive resolution.


The crime is exaggeration, dismissal of the possibilities that we could be wrong, and an unwavering insistence that others see things the same way.
The author is guilty of the exact same crime.


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Snydremark
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Jun 30, 2010 11:59 as a reply to Gregg.Siam's post |  #8

Good laugh for the morning; thanks!


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tonylong
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Jun 30, 2010 12:11 |  #9

Good analysis, Jake!


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DStanic
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Jun 30, 2010 12:18 |  #10

The only brand new lens I've ever bought was my Sigma 24-60- a lens that seems to be very common to have focus issues (if you read the lens sample thread). But guess what, mine works great!

I have had issues with a nifty fifty and a Sigma 70-200 macro (that particular Sigma, known to have issues) but I bought them used and the person selling them might have been getting rid of them for obvious reasons.

It would be interesting to do a poll, one where all members had to participate.. and see what % has never had issues with gear, because the people with issues are louder then the ones that don't.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 30, 2010 12:40 |  #11

The Poll would still be colored though, as a lot of membership is driven by people coming looking for advice on what they feel is bad equipment,
ie: the forum is already made up of a larger percentage of unhappy customers than the real world is. It's a part of the simple fact that "those with issues are louder", as those with issues are also more likely to register here (or elsewhere) in the first place.

that all said,. if everyone did respond, I am sure the majority here would still be more satisfied than not. There is no question in my mind that broken gear is not the norm.


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mikekelley
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Jun 30, 2010 12:52 |  #12

That whole article can be summed up with one of his lines:

We’re FAR too focused on our tools folks and not nearly focused enough on our subjects!


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tonylong
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Jun 30, 2010 12:56 |  #13

It's a fact that major manufacturing concerns like Canon factor in a maximum of a 5% return rate on released products, although early in the life cycle there can of course be unforseen problems. As the product matures, the return rate can be expected to go down. Of course, the "goal" is zero defects, but of course that's an ideal, not reality based.

So, for a mature product, maybe 2 out of 100 units will be returned for rework and those are the ones we hear about. Now, of those returned, a fair number are tested and No Problem Found is designated and they go back out into the market, although intermittent failures can fall into that category.

the point is, though, that it should be no surprise to hear about some field failures -- it's expected even if it makes us sad. But hearing about 1 or 2 in 100 does not mean that camera makers are failing in their job, just that not all problems get caught in your mass production manufacturing line. The "class problems" typically get worked out over the late months of the development cycle or the very early days of a new release (like happened with the 1D3, I'm sure Canon engineers were putting in plenty of frustrating overtime to diagnose those problems and come up with some kind of fix).


Tony
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arentol
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Jun 30, 2010 13:12 |  #14

He basically states that 1% of cameras and lenses have major problems and slightly more than that, perhaps 2%-3% have minor issues that do need some form of resolution.

How many users are on this forum? How many new cameras or lenses does each user purchase on average per year? Multiply that out, and suddenly you have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of genuine issues per year. So of course you will see quite a few posts on the subject.

People forget the scale of the internet. There are about 1.9 BILLION people using the internet these days, and probably 99.9% of all people that use other high-tech stuff on a regular basis are on the internet. So if 100,000 copies of a lens are made in a year and 3% have some kind of issue (which is fairly typical for most high tech products), then that is 3,000 bad lenses, all in the hands of internet users. You can be certain that if the issue is noticed these people WILL post somewhere about it.

So it is entirely possible all these people he is complaining about have genuine and valid complaints and he is the one that is the real whiner.

Or it could just be that most people suck at photography.


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birdfromboat
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Jun 30, 2010 22:33 |  #15

I don't know where and when the first photographer doubted the quality of the high priced equipment he was purchasing. I suspect someone got a bad brownie and told everyone at the lodge about it.

For me, I remember hearing stories passed down from 1960's pros about guys buying a dozen copies of a lens they wanted, taking them all home and carefully focusing on a newspaper classified ads page and then keeping the one that was marginally better and returning the rest so the next pro could do the same thing. Never buy the first lens a store clerk hands you they said, never buy one of the last ones in the store, if you want a good lens you need to have the capitol investment to buy a dozen, and the luck to find the one you want.

definitely not true today, but I have to wonder if these stories were the beginnings of the kind of buyers fear I see here all the time.

when was the last time you saw a rant about how perfectly well someones experience with product quality was going? People get motivated to post about problems, not the lack of them.

I have owned twenty copies of various canon lenses new and used in the past two and a half years, and been concerned about a few enough to run a few tests and assure myself everything was OK, and so far everything has been OK. Just venting......


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Solving Camera/Lens Hypochondria
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