So you come up with a unique idea for a shoot

[sfaust]

>> SnapLocally
Wow, really?

>> LBaldwin
Bingo across the board!

My 2 cents from the trenches, 90% of the time I hire models for client projects, which are obviously client funded. But the other 10% of the time I will hire models when I want to shoot an idea, concept, etc, for my own idea or promotion, and I want a specific model or look. I think its only fair that if I am shooting exactly what I want, then the model is actually working for me.

The times when I'll shoot for trade, are when I want to polish off my skills in a certain area, try new lighting or photography techniques, just wanting to keep my skills sharp, etc. I'll look for models looking to do the same, basically, we both want to play around in the studio/location and work on our skill sets. I'll always make it a point to shoot something that fits both of our goals and needs. Thats a perfect combination for a trade of similar skills and experience. It's almost like friends getting together to practice tennis. You can't do it alone, yet when you do it together you are both earning similar benefits.

On commercial jobs, when I am hired to create imagery for a client, I'll generally end up hiring all the talent. This is usually when I hire most of the models that are paid. The model fees are passed along to the client as expenses (or billed client direct for most big shoots!). The agency/client hires us to shoot the project, and we work with the client in model selection, then hire the models, assistants, stylists, grip, etc.

Photographers and models shooting together generally are jointly working on improving their skills, looking for new images for their portfolios, trying new creative stuff together. Most of the time its like friends going out and practicing a sport together. They do it because they love what they do, want to get better at it, and they are helping each other equally climb the ladder in the industry. No reason to exchange funds since it provide equal benefits to all involved.

Keep in mind too, that even those at the very top of the industry still do trades. They will call it 'collaborating on a project', 'testing', 'hanging out with my old friend and shooting', etc. But you'll have a famous photographer shooting a famous model, and neither is paying the other, with no purpose other than to create some cool images.

Photographers shooting models, or models modeling for photographers, as a source of income has always been way at the bottom of the list. It was never a winning proposition as far back as the 80's, and I don't see that changing now. Its best to think of them as peers and partners, both trying to earn their money from client projects, than as a client base themselves.

With that said, more experienced photographers can charge less experience models for shooting, as can more experienced models charge less experienced photographers, since the skill and experience levels are different, and thus the benefits to each are not equal. So there are some opportunities.

[cbknight]

Originally Posted by sfaust

>> SnapLocally
Wow, really?

>> LBaldwin
Bingo across the board!

My 2 cents from the trenches, 90% of the time I hire models for client projects, which are obviously client funded. But the other 10% of the time I will hire models when I want to shoot an idea, concept, etc, for my own idea or promotion, and I want a specific model or look. I think its only fair that if I am shooting exactly what I want, then the model is actually working for me.

The times when I'll shoot for trade, are when I want to polish off my skills in a certain area, try new lighting or photography techniques, just wanting to keep my skills sharp, etc. I'll look for models looking to do the same, basically, we both want to play around in the studio/location and work on our skill sets. I'll always make it a point to shoot something that fits both of our goals and needs. Thats a perfect combination for a trade of similar skills and experience. It's almost like friends getting together to practice tennis. You can't do it alone, yet when you do it together you are both earning similar benefits.

On commercial jobs, when I am hired to create imagery for a client, I'll generally end up hiring all the talent. This is usually when I hire most of the models that are paid. The model fees are passed along to the client as expenses (or billed client direct for most big shoots!). The agency/client hires us to shoot the project, and we work with the client in model selection, then hire the models, assistants, stylists, grip, etc.

Photographers and models shooting together generally are jointly working on improving their skills, looking for new images for their portfolios, trying new creative stuff together. Most of the time its like friends going out and practicing a sport together. They do it because they love what they do, want to get better at it, and they are helping each other equally climb the ladder in the industry. No reason to exchange funds since it provide equal benefits to all involved.

Keep in mind too, that even those at the very top of the industry still do trades. They will call it 'collaborating on a project', 'testing', 'hanging out with my old friend and shooting', etc. But you'll have a famous photographer shooting a famous model, and neither is paying the other, with no purpose other than to create some cool images.

Photographers shooting models, or models modeling for photographers, as a source of income has always been way at the bottom of the list. It was never a winning proposition as far back as the 80's, and I don't see that changing now. Its best to think of them as peers and partners, both trying to earn their money from client projects, than as a client base themselves.

With that said, more experienced photographers can charge less experience models for shooting, as can more experienced models charge less experienced photographers, since the skill and experience levels are different, and thus the benefits to each are not equal. So there are some opportunities.

Lots of questions answered between you and Mr. Baldwin. I really appreciate it. I would also like to compliment you in your website. Very nice website and outstanding work.

I think I am starting getting the idea behind how all this fits in together. Unfortunately at first, the responses were assuming I had somewhat of a clue, which I had none. Until I turned from a hobbyist to getting serious, the only photographers I knew of were family photogs and figured the rest of the business was sewed up tight where a small time guy couldn't break in. I seem to dream small since born and raised small town. The thought of hiring or even working with a model of any caliber seemed like a crazy idea that would never happen to me. Then things changed and I had no clue as to how it all worked. But starting to understand a little now that y'all have taken the time to enlighten me.

Many thanks to all who have responded.

[Enygma3000]

This was a great and very informative thread!!

[PhotosGuy]

Good posts above!

=sfaust; ...But the other 10% of the time I will hire models when I want to shoot an idea, concept, etc, for my own idea or promotion,...

I think a bit more could be said about that.

When you call on new/old client, art director, or corporate art buyer, it's nice to have something new to show them, rather than just BS-ing & asking what they have coming up for you. Especially in the larger markets, you're giving them something to put on their wall to remind them that you exist, & the best part is that you have total control over the content & execution.