is 85L MK I fast enough for running kids

[gte357s]

Hi,

I am looking to trade my 135L to a 85L MK I. I know it is slow, I even found a youtube clip showing how slow it is. But still, I cannot conclude if it is too slow for me. I have a 2 year old son who jump up and down all the time. I mainly will use it indoor portrait. I would like to hear any experience out there to take pics for kids.

Thanks.

[jwcdds]

Let's just say you'll have a very poor ratio of keepers : tossers. I'm having a tough enough time with the 85Lii as is (whenever my kid drifts back and forth and he's not even crawling yet). Doesn't mean I wouldn't try but my expectation is going to be super low when he gets there.

[Jam.radonc]

No, even the 85L II is too slow for focusing for running kids. Keep the 135L it's a great lens. If you have the itch for newer versatile lens than the 100L might fit the bill. It focuses very fast, macro feature, razor sharp in all apertures and light. The 85L is slow and bulky. Great images though.

[gte357s]

Thanks for the reply .. probably I should. I just found the 135L sometimes too long to be used indoor, and so I bought a 50 1.4. But the bokeh is not as nice, and I can't really change lens all the time. So, thinking to get the 85L to replace the two. It seems it won't work then.

[Jam.radonc]

Agreed that the 135L is too long indoor but have you considered the cheaper cousin 85/1.8? It's 95% of what the 85L can do.

[gte357s]

Originally Posted by Jam.radonc

Agreed that the 135L is too long indoor but have you considered the cheaper cousin 85/1.8? It's 95% of what the 85L can do.

I have that before, but maybe that one is a bad copy, I found out it miss the focus quite often. And the color somehow feels lacking something, so I sold it.

It seems I need to keep waiting for the Sigma 85mm.

[5x5 photography]

The 85 f/1.8 is a fine prime. I have shot a lot of low light concerts and color/contrast seem very acceptable. The 85 f/1.8 focuses much faster than the 85 f/1.2. I really wanted the f/1.2 but was talked out of it by a Canon rep. After explaining my photography to him he told me the f/1.2 would be too slow for what I did as compared to my f/1.8 with web based images.

[newworld666]

with AF, there 2 aspects about speed matter :
- first is concerned with the time to make focus (85L 1 or 2 are ultra slow)
- second aspect is concened with the capabilty to follow a subject in AI Focus mode, and I think there is no difficulties as many people seem to imagine.

Last week, I tried to test, for a future night session for a 12h world quad bike race (21/22 of august), the slowest AF lens (85L1.2II) with the slowest or most erratic body 5DMKII ... and I had strictly no difficulties to follow a more than 100km/h quad bikes ..

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=911308

It's just a question of technique to fix initial focus. And after you got it, you can use the quickest lens of the market for indoor or night uses. And 85L1.2I is better than 85F1.8 ..

Unless your children run quicker than dogs, you won't have any difficulties ..
another samples of 85L1.2II in indoor use for god agility..
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=900836

I couldn't use my 300L2.8 which obliged me to go to 4000iso to get the right speed to freeze hair, feet, etc ..

[kitacanon]

Sorry to disagree, but the problem is not the lens it is how it is used...

Focusing and shooting moving objects takes enormous amount of practice...you can't expect any auto-focus and auto-exposure camera to function perfectly independent of the user...

If the subject/scenario is too dark for AF, then no lens will focus "fast" enough...AF requires a minimum amount of light and contrast...if AF "hunts" then you can't use AF and you have to learn how to focus manually...learn how to pre-focus and how to anticipate action to get precise focus

This all assumes you're shooting AVAILABLE light...if it is so dark that AF doesn't function correctly, then you'll also be shooting wide open at F1.4 or so and that gives you precious little Depth of Field...with a 50mm 1.4 lens at 10 feet you only have 6 inches DoF, hardly enough to get correct focus, or ENOUGH in focus...with an 85mm @ F1.4 and 10 feet, you only have 3 inches to "play with"...you have to go to 16 feet to get 6 inches DoF...so you can't expect much will be in focus, even with a perfectly focused photo...

The only option short of hours of practice and experience and luck (never overlook that variable) is using a flash
Bouncing a 580 off the ceiling should allow you to use 85mm at F8, which at 10 feet gives you 12 inches DoF...a 50mm @ F8 would give you a bit more than 2 feet of DoF...@ F11 you'd get 2x that

Finally, getting a pro-line Canon body that has better focusing mechanism than the 1.6x crop bodies (or the 5D mk I) might be considered...

[newworld666]

.. oups ... sorry for my poor english .... but it's exactly what I tried to explain, it's more a matter of technique than body or lens capability.

I own a 50D, 5DMKII with 85L1.2II or 135L2.0, I don't mind any of the combination for action or sports indoor or outdoor.
I just need 1/640 or 1/800 minimum speed and 3200 iso max with my 5DMKII or 1250 with 50D .

[kitacanon]

I wasn't disagreeing with you, NW666...but with those earlier posters who wrote about technology rather than technique...as you say, knowing how to correctly use the camera's settings, but also the need to develop user skills...

[nightcat]

If you feel the 135mm length is too long, the 100mm 2.0 would be perfect.

[jwcdds]

I don't think the 85Li nor ii would have difficulty "tracking" a subject/object once focus is achieved and the subject moves in a somewhat predictable trajectory.

But we're talking about toddlers/kids here. They can hardly walk in a straight line and stay balanced let alone stay in one trajectory. As noted earlier. It's possible to get decent/great shots. Just lower one's expectations on keeper ratio.

[amfoto1]

Let's see....

1. Take one of the slowest focusing cameras on the market and...

2. Add one of the slower focusing lenses on the market and...

3. Try to photograph action: relatively quick and erratic subject movement.

Hey, go for it! Just have your "delete" key ready.

Or get the 85/1.8 if you want that focal length. But keep the 135/2, whatever you do.

Agreed... it's not that there is anything wrong with the equipment itself... The 5Dc and 5D2 simply focus about half as quickly as the 40D/50D... They just aren't designed for sports/action. No doubt Canon made a decision to put a more simplistic AF system in both the 5Ds to help keep the cost down as much as possible. They also probably made some compromises to make the processor more available to handle big image files at a reasonable frame rate. Similarly, the 85/1.2L just aren't designed for speed either... It's designed for selective focus and portraiture. Relatively big elements and groups take longer to move during focus. Plus, ultra thin DOF makes takes the need for AF precision to a whole new level. The Mark II is faster than the Mark I, but the "lesser" 85/1.8 will smoke either one of them in a speed contest (but not in a bokeh contest).

And, yes, there will be times when the camera and lens manage to lock on and maintain focus. Plus there are techniques that can be used such as prefocusing and waiting for the subject to come to that point (depends upon how much "erratic" comes into the equation). However, you will be less successful than you would with more responsive AF systems and faster focusing lenses. You'll have a lot more throwaway shots.

Sure, an f1.2 lens gives you another stop of light over an f1.8 lens. However there are other ways to "get the shot". Boost your ISO a stop and use different post processing if needed to clean up any noise that's introduced. I have little concern about using 5D2 at ISO 6400 and 7D at ISO 3200... I tried to limit 50D to ISO 1600 but would occasionally use them at 3200 and grudgingly do additional post processing. Even higher ISO might be used on any of these cameras if you're able to convert to B&W or sepia. If that's not possible, IMO high ISO color noise is more "acceptable" with the more recent models, too. Avoid under-exposure at all costs, to keep noise to a minimum. Alternatively, add light... Flash. Or, slow your shutter speed and let some subject motion happen. It quite often looks more natural than completely freezing a moving subject in mid-air.

Lower light situations will slow AF even more, no matter what lens is used... although a larger aperture can help to some degree. Limit yourself to using only the center AF point, which in most cameras is more sensitive. A 1-series camera's AF will perform best in low light, if that's an option. 7D has sort of a "lite" version of that AF system (fewer points, but similarly arrayed and dual processors), not quite as quick as 1-seriesi, but a wee bit quicker and more low light capable than 50D.

Heck, in tough shooting situations I'll use as many of the different techniques as I can, to have choices among the final images.

[sonnyc]

Originally Posted by jwcdds

I don't think the 85Li nor ii would have difficulty "tracking" a subject/object once focus is achieved and the subject moves in a somewhat predictable trajectory.

But we're talking about toddlers/kids here. They can hardly walk in a straight line and stay balanced let alone stay in one trajectory. As noted earlier. It's possible to get decent/great shots. Just lower one's expectations on keeper ratio.

What Julian said here. I've used it with running kids on a 1D series and it was tough. Once focus was locked, it's possible to a certain speed. But for kids and erratic movements, you'll have hard time especially on the 5D.