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Old 8th of August 2010 (Sun)   #1
Scooter B
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Default Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

I decided spur of the moment to catch the Bob Dylan Concert here in OKC at the outdoor zoo amphitheater. Although I do like Bob Dylan okay and respect his legacy the deciding factor naively for me was to take my camera and a telephoto lens just to experiment and see if perchance I could get a really lucky shot. For me really lucky in this case would be anything perhaps decent enough for a personal photo album.

I would not have bought the ticket most likely had I known of the Gestapo tactics regarding getting anything more than a point and shoot into an outdoor concert from the general admission "cheap" seats.

I have zero interest in publishing or any illusions of earning any money (at this point)... just a simple amateur photo hobbyist/fan of both photography and music. Realistically I would have exponentially higher odds of winning the lottery I don't play or getting hit by a meteorite. No desire to go backstage, up close, into a media pit and have the common sense/good manners not to attempt to use a flash or to block others view for minutes on end etc. Hell I think those oblivious to treating others with respect including the paparazzi or obnoxious concert goers are fair game for what they get short of lynching or being maimed permanently without a trial but that's another story.

IMHO paying $50 for a general admission ticket should include the right to take a few personal memento shots to remember the concert by after the T-Shirt has moved on to dust rag heaven..... I mean really how many camera toting typical concerts goers percentage wise (no back stage/pit access) have a realistic chance of making a single dime off anything when there are real pro's out there competing with them?

Obviously there is the money grubbing band/label management wanting all the money or power plays for complete control of the merchandising if money is being made. I just don't know anyone personally who has gone out and bought prints of individual concert photo's etc although I knew there were some pro photographers who specialized in this area and indeed were very talented at it.

Please know I admire and am in complete support for those of you that have dedicated yourselves, time, skills and hard earned experience (not to mention overhead $$$) to be paid well for your services. The performers agreed a head of time to show up, play for a predetermined price and the opportunity to sell whatever they want to the fans. There is zero reason for them to demand 100% of concert photo income shot by third parties. I suppose as a trademarked entity they have some justification for wanting a cut at some point and percentage.

But are there really no options or work arounds for someone who just want to try their hand for personal use with no commercial potential?

I tried to convince the people at the gate countering the "no professional cameras rule" that they could not find a single pro photographer who would consider my EOS XS as "professional" level and would laugh at the proposition. Just another example of the entertainment hoodlums shooting themselves in the foot out of their own greed and hastening their own demise while we the fans walk away in disgust.

I think I may have been to my big concert until things change a lot.

Not that its his fault personally but if you happen to see one Bob Dylan tell him he aint the only one "not working on Maggies farm no more" and to make room for the exedous that is coming. The times are still a changing and they can kiss my you know what as its blowin in the wind their direction.
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Old 8th of August 2010 (Sun)   #2
narlus
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

this post is somewhat unintentionally hilarious, since Dylan is notorious not allowing ANYONE into his shows w/ a pro camera; he doesn't grant photo credentials anymore and it's been like that for a while.

so don't feel bad!
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Old 8th of August 2010 (Sun)   #3
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

i agree with you, however if you take your lens and theres other photogs in the pit trying to earn a living and your photo gets used then they dont make a living. however an argument could then be made that ifyour getting better photos from outside the pit than the photogs in there then they shouldnt be getting paid for their images.

all in all chalk it up to experience and get credentials if you want to shoot in a concert next time.

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Old 8th of August 2010 (Sun)   #4
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

Most, if not all, large venues, and some smaller ones, prohibit DLSRs. Honestly most established artists do not want someone shooting the whole show. They would rather have you enjoying their music.

There are many other reasons DSLRs are generally prohibited, including not interfering with other concert goers and most of the photographers who are authorized to be there are likely limited to three songs, so why should you have greater access?

Easy rule of thumb, if Ticketmaster sold you the ticket leave the camera at home. There are of course exceptions on both sides, but if you are unsure, it is not a bad rule. Get credentials next time.
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Old 8th of August 2010 (Sun)   #5
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

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Originally Posted by kvnkane View Post
however an argument could then be made that ifyour getting better photos from outside the pit than the photogs in there then they shouldnt be getting paid for their images.
that's basically the description for crowd sourcing, and is another reason why pro shooters make little $ from shooting concerts.

if 5000 ppl bring in pro gear and can shoot the whole show, it's guaranteed that among all the pics there will be better ones than the pros can manage during their 1st three song allotment.

edit - maybe every NBA/MLB/NFL/NHL fan can also bring in what they want to the event, screw the wire/local paper/nat'l mag/house shooters.
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Old 8th of August 2010 (Sun)   #6
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

^^ i completly agree with you, just stating that though before some one had a go at the first part of what i was saying.
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Old 9th of August 2010 (Mon)   #7
Scooter B
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

Oh well.

The only merchandising outlet I was familiar with for concert photography was in magazine, books about specific performers or a musical history kind of thing, fanzines, posters etc that all had to go through the label or artist management anyway.

I really wasn't aware there was a serious market or even a demand for more freelance type concert photo's etc.

At the moment I'm on full time disability due to a rare hypersomnia sleep disorder which forces me to sleep 10-12 hours a day yet leaves me feeling completely sleep deprived and foggy. I read up a little regarding the press passes but I can't really plan things very far out and don't have the energy to jump through all the hoops of paperwork etc to even make it appear I had any real experience to justify the press pass.

This sleep disorder thing obliterates my short term memory making it really difficult and very slow learning new things and applying them. In my former life I would jump on the challenge, hunker down and prepare for the next one. Now its kind of like having mono, that Afrikan sleeping sickness disease and a little Alzheimers all at once.
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Old 9th of August 2010 (Mon)   #8
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

Sounds like you have a lot going on. We probably have all run into that scenario once, no need to get frustrated with the artist, venue, or folks enforcing the rules. There are good reasons they are there.

Stick to small clubs with liberal camera policies, you will likely have greater luck and hopefully feel less frustration.
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Old 9th of August 2010 (Mon)   #9
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

You may not consider your camera and gear as pro, but since there is a fine line to whether it is pro or not has to be considered by security. Entry level SLRs are simply in technologically terms near enough to pros back in the days where pro cameras didn't have half the functions entry levels have these days. Plus more and more entry levels do have movie mode on them, something bands and management don't like, unless you have their prior permission

I was almost stopped going in for seeing RHCP with my powershot s50 back in 2004, because it has a movie mode on it. When they realised that you can't get much out of it with a compact camera, they eventually let me in, telling me to go down another entrance point
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Old 9th of August 2010 (Mon)   #10
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

Actually I find the above sentiment common these days. The vast majority of music fans feel entitled to whatevery they want regardless of other people trying to stop them. When you buy a ticket to a concert you are buying a licence to see a performance. You don't get to dictate any of the terms and since you are purchasing a licence, you have entered into a legally binding contract. If you don't agree with the terms, don't enter into that agreement.

As for your gear not being "professional," please note that I made my "bones" in this business with a Canon 350D which predates your camera. Sure others had much better gear than I did but I produced photos that obviously were "professional" enough to allow performance photography to be my only source of income. A talented photographer can use almost any level gear and outshoot deep pocketed people with the best of the best.
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Old 11th of August 2010 (Wed)   #11
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter B View Post
But are there really no options or work arounds for someone who just want to try their hand for personal use with no commercial potential?
The workaround is a P&S camera - allowed at most concerts for "memento shots". If your seats aren't that great, you can always do a long walk around the hall to get a few better shots.
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Old 11th of August 2010 (Wed)   #12
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

Could also likely get away with a Leica.
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Old 12th of August 2010 (Thu)   #13
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

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Could also likely get away with a Leica.

A bit expensive, plus you will need a real good focal length, you won't get pass security with the lens you need though
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Old 12th of August 2010 (Thu)   #14
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

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Originally Posted by 400dabuser View Post
A bit expensive, plus you will need a real good focal length, you won't get pass security with the lens you need though
Maybe an E-Pl1 with a pancake on and a m39 jupiter-8 in the pocket? Don't know about mirrorless cameras in venues, but it might work. The J-8 will give an effective FL of 100mm; should be enough reach.

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Old 12th of August 2010 (Thu)   #15
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Default Re: Justification for banning camera's at concerts?

This has nothing to do with keeping food on pro's tables and everything to do with the artist's interest, or lack of, in good publicity and looking good. Many artists are very protective of their public image. No one wants an unflattering image and the pros and their employers won't post one, unless they want the word to spread and not get credentials the next time around. They have a lot to lose. A fan in the crowd with a 400mm lens has nothing at stake.

Most of the pros are working for publications that will print/write an article about the show along with a photo or two.

It's also a logistics issue. They don't have an unlimited amount of passes to give out or the pit/stage would be a zoo. With that said, I have gotten passes more often than not. It's how you approach the venue/promoter/marketing/communication person and what you can offer. Always a good thing to show samples of your work so they can get an idea of how serious/good/bad you are.

Sometimes/often you won't get one and sometimes it's quite baffling. They wouldn't give me one for a pro cycling event coming next month. This should have been a slam/dunk. I wanted access to the finish line, which is the only restricted area.
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