Canon Digital Photography Forums  

Go Back   Canon Digital Photography Forums > 'Sharing Knowhow' section > RAW, Post Processing and Printing > Computers
Register Rules FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23rd of November 2010 (Tue)   #1
RapGame
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9
Exclamation Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

I've recently calibrated my monitor with Spyder3Elite 4.0 and I'm ok with the colors that I see now having in mind that I have a cheap monitor Acer P223W, but thats not the problem.

The problem is that I can't figure out a way to see the right colors in all the applications.. for ex:

In DPP I see the right colors with the default Color Management settings:
Default settings of Work color space: sRGB
Color matching settings: sRGB
Printing profile - none
CMYK simulation profile - none

In Adobe Bridge and Photoshop CS5 skin tones are very yellow with default settings

In photoshop I can fix it by soft proofing with Monitor RGB but I know thats not a perm solution

In ACDSee Pro 3 I see the right colors like in DPP with the color management off...

I can't figure out whats the problem here, if anyone could give me a tip or some advices what to do on Bridge and Photoshop to show me the right colors...

Thanks in advance
RapGame is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 23rd of November 2010 (Tue)   #2
René Damkot
Moderator
 
René Damkot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: enschede, netherlands
Posts: 39,850
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Adobe Bridge and PS are correct without softproofing.
DPP should display identical if you choose the proper monitor profile in the prefs.
ACDSee Pro 3 can be set to color manage as well: http://acdsystems.custhelp.com/app/a...was-set-on-the
__________________
"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams

Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.

MySpace
Get Colormanaged
Twitter

PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.
René Damkot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of November 2010 (Tue)   #3
RapGame
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by René Damkot View Post
Adobe Bridge and PS are correct without softproofing.
DPP should display identical if you choose the proper monitor profile in the prefs.
ACDSee Pro 3 can be set to color manage as well: http://acdsystems.custhelp.com/app/a...was-set-on-the
Well the problem is that DPP and ACDSee can see the right colors w/o me setting the color profile but if I chose the monitor profile I get the same lame yellow tint on the skin.

Any ideea why ?
RapGame is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 23rd of November 2010 (Tue)   #4
René Damkot
Moderator
 
René Damkot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: enschede, netherlands
Posts: 39,850
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

They are *not* the right colors.

I suppose (assuming the calibration went as it should) that your images have a yellow tint since you edited them on a monitor that was too blue.

Another possibility is that the calibration somehow went wrong.

Post an image maybe? (With embedded icc profile)
__________________
"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams

Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.

MySpace
Get Colormanaged
Twitter

PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.
René Damkot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of November 2010 (Tue)   #5
RapGame
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

First is a screen shoot from Bridge CS5 with DPP edited files then exported to tif.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7528/capturerhq.jpg

Second is a RAW file saved as JPG from DPP with NO settings applied.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3364/img6263dpp.jpg

Third is a screen shoot of ACDSee and DPP side by side how they see the picture (natural colors)
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3062/rawexportss.jpg

Fourth is a screen shoot how Photoshop/Bridge sees the picture
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1...toshopsees.jpg


Or you can download all 4 files from here: http://rapidshare.com/files/432683293/calibration.rar
RapGame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of November 2010 (Tue)   #6
ChasP505
"brain damaged old guy"
 
ChasP505's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 5,566
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapGame View Post
Fourth is a screen shoot how Photoshop/Bridge sees the picture
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1...toshopsees.jpg
What this reminds me of is the result I would always get trying to calibrate a Samsung TN paneled monitor.

What calibration settings did you use in your Spyder3 software?
What adjustments did you make to the monitor controls?

How does Photoshop/Bridge look when you open a standardized test image (not one of your own)?

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/d...1/DL_page.html
__________________
Chas P
"It doesn't matter how you get there if you don't know where you're going!"

Last edited by ChasP505 : 23rd of November 2010 (Tue) at 12:38.
ChasP505 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of November 2010 (Tue)   #7
RapGame
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasP505 View Post
What this reminds me of is the result I would always get trying to calibrate a Samsung TN paneled monitor.

What calibration settings did you use in your Spyder3 software?
What adjustments did you make to the monitor controls?

How does Photoshop/Bridge look when you open a standardized test image (not one of your own)?

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/d...1/DL_page.html
Spyder settings:
Gamma: 2.2
White point: 6500K
Brightness: 120
Ambient Light: Off

Monitor controls: only brightness adjust.. I followed the instructions provided by datacolor --> Let monitor warm up for at last 30min, reset monitor to defaul, and I tried 2 times with different color setups, first Warm then RGB settings ==> same result

I just downloaded the SpyderProof picture and opened it in photoshop looks like in Spyder software, skin tones = yellowish
here's a preview: http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8583/sshot1r.jpg
RapGame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of November 2010 (Tue)   #8
ChasP505
"brain damaged old guy"
 
ChasP505's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 5,566
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

When it comes to TN panel LCD monitors, I've come to believe that some simply can't be properly calibrated... Or can't be calibrated with certain calibrators.

I had the exact same issue as yours with certain Samsung monitors at my old business office. After trying everything under the sun, including EyeOne Display 2, we gave up and settled for "eyeball calibration". Maybe your Acer unit is made by Samsung.
__________________
Chas P
"It doesn't matter how you get there if you don't know where you're going!"
ChasP505 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th of November 2010 (Wed)   #9
Jimmer411
Thank god Im green.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 810
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Any image you previously edited before calibrating will be "off" now that your calibrated. Im running a Samsung 206BW TN panel next to my Dell U2311H IPS panel with both calibrated and they are both spot on compared to my prints.



What are you selecting your monitor profile for? Color workspace? Monitor profile is not your workspace, aRGB, sRGB or ProPhotoRGB is.
__________________
50D | Sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM | EF 85mm f/1.8 USM | EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | 430EX | YN-460-II | RF-602 x2 |
Jimmer411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th of November 2010 (Wed)   #10
ChasP505
"brain damaged old guy"
 
ChasP505's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 5,566
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmer411 View Post
...Im running a Samsung 206BW TN panel next to my Dell U2311H IPS panel with both calibrated and they are both spot on compared to my prints....
What method did you use to calibrate the Samsung 206BW? No color casts when you view images in Photoshop? What is your video card setup?
__________________
Chas P
"It doesn't matter how you get there if you don't know where you're going!"
ChasP505 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th of November 2010 (Wed)   #11
Jimmer411
Thank god Im green.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 810
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasP505 View Post
What method did you use to calibrate the Samsung 206BW? No color casts when you view images in Photoshop? What is your video card setup?


I am running a single HD4870. I enabled RGB in spyder3elite preferences and and adjusted my color temp using the RGB sliders on my monitor. I noticed on both Samsung 206bw and 1 226BW that I had to drop my RGB values significantly and increase my backlight.



The 206BW on my desk is using R12 G13 B34 with brightness of 90 to achieve 6500k and 130cd brightness. The 226BW had similar RGB values with 79 brightness. The default color temp from my spyder3 express was 5700 after calibration. Make sure that magic color is off as well.

Im able to view the test image without color casts on all the monitors in my house. Some of my personal images have a over saturated yellowish cast to them but that is because they were edited on an uncalibrated monitor. I have compared prints to my first calibration with the spyder3 express and my spyder 3 elite side by side, and the new setup matches prints perfectly, the old setup was acceptable.


In photoshop CS3 In my color settings I selected "North American Prepress 2." Under color management policys what do you have selected?
__________________
50D | Sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM | EF 85mm f/1.8 USM | EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | 430EX | YN-460-II | RF-602 x2 |
Jimmer411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th of November 2010 (Wed)   #12
ChasP505
"brain damaged old guy"
 
ChasP505's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 5,566
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

In my former office we had about a dozen 226BW and 225BWs. All were extremely blue at factory default settings. Measured white was up around 9000K. When calibrating with Spyder3 Elite, I took the Brightness to about 85, giving me 160cd/m2 in my bright corporate office. The RGB values ended up in the range of R-50 G-40 B-30 to hit 6500K. (Normally, I wouldn't even adjust the RGB sliders this much because it reduces your available color tones and causes banding)

This profile produced a brownish/sepia color cast, especially in Photoshop.

Calibrating at native white avoided the color cast, but left the original blue cast. Since these monitors were not used for true color critical work, by trial and error, we found a good OSD formula which put them in the ballpark.

These monitors are one by one being farmed out to administrative offices and replaced in my Marketing Dept with IPS paneled LCDs.
__________________
Chas P
"It doesn't matter how you get there if you don't know where you're going!"

Last edited by ChasP505 : 24th of November 2010 (Wed) at 17:09.
ChasP505 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th of November 2010 (Thu)   #13
RapGame
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

I contacted DataColor and they told me to try the 3.1.5 pro software to see if the problem persists and it does, they said the problem might be from Spyder Hardware because I get the same skin tones on laptop as well.

I'm currently waiting for them to reply and see if they gonna change my spyder.
I'm also considering buying another Monitor in January or February.. I was thinking to go for Dell UltraSharp U2410 but seems some people have experienced some color casts on that model.

Anyway Jimmer411, I saw that you have a Dell U2311H, how is it? it was easy to calibrate? can you tell me some pro and cons about it ?
RapGame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th of November 2010 (Thu)   #14
Jimmer411
Thank god Im green.
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Enumclaw, WA
Posts: 810
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapGame View Post
I contacted DataColor and they told me to try the 3.1.5 pro software to see if the problem persists and it does, they said the problem might be from Spyder Hardware because I get the same skin tones on laptop as well.

I'm currently waiting for them to reply and see if they gonna change my spyder.
I'm also considering buying another Monitor in January or February.. I was thinking to go for Dell UltraSharp U2410 but seems some people have experienced some color casts on that model.

Anyway Jimmer411, I saw that you have a Dell U2311H, how is it? it was easy to calibrate? can you tell me some pro and cons about it ?
Im very happy with it. The on screen controls make calibration a breeze and so far in heavy gaming I dont notice any input lag or ghosting. I would buy a second one if I had the space on my desk lol.

I cant think of anything that I dont like about it.
__________________
50D | Sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM | EF 85mm f/1.8 USM | EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | 430EX | YN-460-II | RF-602 x2 |
Jimmer411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th of November 2010 (Fri)   #15
René Damkot
Moderator
 
René Damkot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: enschede, netherlands
Posts: 39,850
Default Re: Need help with color management(Spyder3Elite and Photoshop/Bridge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapGame View Post
First is a screen shoot from Bridge CS5 with DPP edited files then exported to tif.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7528/capturerhq.jpg

Second is a RAW file saved as JPG from DPP with NO settings applied.
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3364/img6263dpp.jpg

Third is a screen shoot of ACDSee and DPP side by side how they see the picture (natural colors)
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3062/rawexportss.jpg

Fourth is a screen shoot how Photoshop/Bridge sees the picture
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1...toshopsees.jpg


Or you can download all 4 files from here: http://rapidshare.com/files/432683293/calibration.rar
Well, the image straight out of DPP looks okay.
It's the only image with an embedded profile, so the only one something meaningful can be said about.

The others do look garish, but no idea what's the cause: Might be a bad spyder, or a bad (read: almost not calibrate-able) monitor...
__________________
"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams

Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.

MySpace
Get Colormanaged
Twitter

PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.
René Damkot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Color management issues in Photoshop Mike787 RAW, Post Processing and Printing 5 7th of July 2010 (Wed) 17:05
Color management in photoshop wouter88 RAW, Post Processing and Printing 11 20th of June 2009 (Sat) 11:49
Color management in photoshop? ekie RAW, Post Processing and Printing 2 16th of November 2006 (Thu) 16:20
Photoshop CS2 and color management canon shooter RAW, Post Processing and Printing 6 25th of October 2006 (Wed) 04:37
HELP! Photoshop Color Management. cowman345 RAW, Post Processing and Printing 4 17th of August 2004 (Tue) 13:32


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This forum is not affiliated with Canon in any way and is run as a free user helpsite by Pekka Saarinen, Helsinki Finland. You will need to register in order to be able to post messages. Cookies are required for registering and posting. HTML in messages is not allowed, plain website addresses are automatically made active by the board.