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Thread started 11 Apr 2010 (Sunday) 22:49
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Paypal! WOW!

 
Mk1Racer
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Apr 15, 2010 08:10 |  #91

wishlf wrote in post #9993136 (external link)
Did you ever ask Paypal why they set limitation on an account? Yes, I did, I asked them if it's because of paypal gift transactions. They said it has nothing to do with paypal gift option, when they see any irregular account activity, they will put limit on it. My account was limited again yesterday for having a transaction. Yes! I did pay the 3%. So don't try to be smart. I don't need your verbal attack. And where did you see I ask people to be on my side? I don't see myself starting war against anyone, be more mature dude.

When you say things like "I guarantee 80% of those threads mention paypal gift", you're using an excuse I would expect from a 10 y/o to justify actions that you know are wrong (by your own admission), and solicit support for your position. Do you disagree that when you used the gift option for a transaction that was not a gift, but was in fact a sale, that you stole that 3% fee from paypal?


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ofafeather
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Apr 15, 2010 08:30 |  #92

HoosierJoe wrote in post #9999324 (external link)
New York rules says that's ethical.

Ironically, it's not ethical or legal in NY. Merchants (read businesses)are not legally allowed to add a surcharge for credit card payments. They don't have to accept CC and they are allowed to discount products for non-cc payments but they cannot raise the price. There used to be a cash/credit price at gas stations but that's been done away with some time ago. In fact, during the last surge in gas prices one station went back to the old ways and started charging a higher price for cc and got in trouble.

What I find to be funny is that most sellers on the board build the shipping costs into their price but many refuse to add the pp costs, especially now that PP no longer as a no-cost payment option for purchases, as they used to with paypal balance transfers. I think bank funded payments had a fee but it was lower. Don't remember. Ah, well.

Pay the fees or don't use Paypal.


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Mk1Racer
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Apr 15, 2010 08:52 |  #93

ofafeather wrote in post #9999424 (external link)
Ironically, it's not ethical or legal in NY. Merchants (read businesses)are not legally allowed to add a surcharge for credit card payments. They don't have to accept CC and they are allowed to discount products for non-cc payments but they cannot raise the price. There used to be a cash/credit price at gas stations but that's been done away with some time ago. In fact, during the last surge in gas prices one station went back to the old ways and started charging a higher price for cc and got in trouble.

Funny thing is, NJ started the 'discount for cash' thing a year or so ago. Not all stations, but probably 80% or so. Goes anywhere from $0.04 to as high at $0.15 a gallon.

Another credit card fee story. Place I used to work had house accounts for their good customers. These were payable in full every month. It seemed like more and more people wanted to pay their accounts w/ a credit card. My boss (the owner) put a stop to it. Said why should he let them float the money for a month, and then pay a CC fee on top of it when they paid the bill. They were already getting a discount since they were good customers anyway. Didn't really meet w/ much resistance.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant.


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pleb1024
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Apr 15, 2010 13:18 |  #94

Bloodbean wrote in post #9983618 (external link)
That's the way it works here in New Zealand for paying on won auctions, bank to bank!

Troy

Yes but the bank to bank stuff works differently in NZ. In order to extract cash from a/cs in theory you have to have a direct debit authorization on file at the bank. Putting money into someones account no problem. This isn't 100% but for NZ->NZ bank a/cs you have a lot more comeback against the bank if an unauthorized transaction occurs.

In the US it's possible (if you know how to structure) to get money from another persons bank a.c. and the person can be SOOL

Daniel
EDIT: I've worked in financial processing systems in both countries


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ofafeather
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Apr 15, 2010 14:12 |  #95

Let's put it this way - a secure payment service is worth paying for. In the past you would pay for reliable methods such as postal money, cashier's check or bank check. They didn't cost that much, certainly not 3%, and we fairly reliable. Then, more and more, people were getting scammed by counterfeit money orders from formerly reliable sources. There seems to be some risk involved in all forms of payment, even cash. The school that I teach at was actually passed a counterfeit $5 bill. Fortunately it wasn't much, but you expect a check to be bad before cash. I think our best protection is to know who you're dealing with as much as possible.

Also, since internet commerce is such a large part of our lives now it's in our best interest to pursue a reliable source for secure payment. The best way to do that is to be active. Write to your legislature and ask them to bring Paypal under regulation. If enough people ask it will probably be done. If you have problems with paypal that they don't correct willingly or easily, write to your AG or consumer bureau. We need Paypal, and they know it! Doesn't mean we have to take it lying down, though.


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Poe
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Apr 21, 2010 11:08 |  #96

HoosierJoe wrote in post #9999324 (external link)
Not really the point. Posting ads insisting on gift payment is the posters way of avoiding paying what they agreed to pay. Not a hard concept to understand. The intent is to avoid responsibility. New York rules says that's ethical. The rest of the country must disagree.

Insisting on gift payment is not a way of avoiding paypal fees, since Paypal is paid their fee by the buyer when using that option!

Granted there may have been a time when the gift option was fee free for the seller and buyer, but that was PayPal's decision to not charge a fee, not wishlf. Implying that he's a criminal for defrauding PayPal is utterly ridiculous.



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Poe
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Apr 21, 2010 11:17 |  #97

ofafeather wrote in post #10001386 (external link)
Let's put it this way - a secure payment service is worth paying for. In the past you would pay for reliable methods such as postal money, cashier's check or bank check. They didn't cost that much, certainly not 3%, and we fairly reliable. Then, more and more, people were getting scammed by counterfeit money orders from formerly reliable sources. There seems to be some risk involved in all forms of payment, even cash. The school that I teach at was actually passed a counterfeit $5 bill. Fortunately it wasn't much, but you expect a check to be bad before cash. I think our best protection is to know who you're dealing with as much as possible.

Also, since internet commerce is such a large part of our lives now it's in our best interest to pursue a reliable source for secure payment. The best way to do that is to be active. Write to your legislature and ask them to bring Paypal under regulation. If enough people ask it will probably be done. If you have problems with paypal that they don't correct willingly or easily, write to your AG or consumer bureau. We need Paypal, and they know it! Doesn't mean we have to take it lying down, though.

How about exercising your own power by choosing who you do business with and in what form rather than creating more government regulation. We don't "need" paypal. There happens to be a market for paypal and paypal is capitalizing on that market. The last thing we need is more government intervention. If you feel you can do better, please create that start-up because I would rather use a different paypal-like institution that has a much more equitable fee schedule rather than this ~3% global cut. I do not understand how a $10,000 transaction can (or should) cost more than a $100 transaction when it's nearly all done by computer.



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HoosierJoe
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Apr 22, 2010 04:52 |  #98

Poe wrote in post #10037633 (external link)
Insisting on gift payment is not a way of avoiding paypal fees, since Paypal is paid their fee by the buyer when using that option!

Granted there may have been a time when the gift option was fee free for the seller and buyer, but that was PayPal's decision to not charge a fee, not wishlf. Implying that he's a criminal for defrauding PayPal is utterly ridiculous.

Ever read the paypal contract?

You need to know what you are signing. Ignorance is no excuse.



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cdifoto
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Apr 22, 2010 05:21 |  #99

PayPal ain't that bad if you follow their rules and don't have thousands of dollars worth of transactions out of the blue à la fly-by-night scammer. If your huge transactions are a regular thing, no issues. However, if you usually push zero $$ through PayPal then suddenly you're pulling in $5000 in a week, of course they're going to wake up and take a look. ESPECIALLY if the subject says "Payment for XXX Camera/Lens/Flash whatever" yet it's marked as GIFT PAYMENT.

Oh and I'd never buy from someone who expects me to mark the payment as a gift. For one, they're a cheap bastard and I don't like cheap bastards. For two, marking it as a gift gives ME no protection because cash as a gift has no product attached therefore no shipping/delivery obligation.


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ofafeather
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Apr 22, 2010 06:24 as a reply to  @ cdifoto's post |  #100

Poe wrote in post #10037693 (external link)
How about exercising your own power by choosing who you do business with and in what form rather than creating more government regulation. We don't "need" paypal. There happens to be a market for paypal and paypal is capitalizing on that market. The last thing we need is more government intervention. If you feel you can do better, please create that start-up because I would rather use a different paypal-like institution that has a much more equitable fee schedule rather than this ~3% global cut. I do not understand how a $10,000 transaction can (or should) cost more than a $100 transaction when it's nearly all done by computer.



People should absolutely choose who and how to do business. As far as need vs want, that's an entire debate on its own and could be applied to the whole financial system of which paypal is a part. Unfortunately I don't have the resources to start a service like that but if we can show enough demand, as you say, there, might be a decent service that can fill the gap. Paypal does have a fee schedule, based on how much you receive monthly but it doesn't get down to 1%. Since they don't have any competition they can charge whatever they like. Since they don't have to follow any rules they can hold your money for as long as they like. We don't need new regulations. Just make them follow the existing ones.


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ofafeather
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Apr 22, 2010 06:27 |  #101

Poe wrote in post #10037633 (external link)
Insisting on gift payment is not a way of avoiding paypal fees, since Paypal is paid their fee by the buyer when using that option!

Granted there may have been a time when the gift option was fee free for the seller and buyer, but that was PayPal's decision to not charge a fee, not wishlf. Implying that he's a criminal for defrauding PayPal is utterly ridiculous.

There is no fee for a gift payment unless the sender pays by credit card. Also, while not criminal, it certainly violates the terms of use.


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mikekelley
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Apr 22, 2010 13:38 |  #102

cdifoto wrote in post #10043206 (external link)
Oh and I'd never buy from someone who expects me to mark the payment as a gift. For one, they're a cheap bastard and I don't like cheap bastards. For two, marking it as a gift gives ME no protection because cash as a gift has no product attached therefore no shipping/delivery obligation.

agreed on all counts


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alpha_1976
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Apr 22, 2010 13:45 |  #103

cdifoto wrote in post #10043206 (external link)
For two, marking it as a gift gives ME no protection because cash as a gift has no product attached therefore no shipping/delivery obligation.

If you don't rely on your CC, regular payments are the same if you trust paypal and seller is smart.


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Poe
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Apr 23, 2010 02:49 |  #104

ofafeather wrote in post #10043395 (external link)
There is no fee for a gift payment unless the sender pays by credit card. Also, while not criminal, it certainly violates the terms of use.

How does it violate the terms of use when it's a method of payment set up by paypal itself!?!?!?

Paypal is violating their own terms of use?!



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Apr 23, 2010 03:02 |  #105

HoosierJoe wrote in post #10043147 (external link)
Ever read the paypal contract?

You need to know what you are signing. Ignorance is no excuse.

I have absolutely no idea where you've picked up this information about paypal not getting paid their fee when using the "gift" option.

Uusing the "gift" (which isn't really a gift option anymore, rather than the sender paying the fee, rather then the receiver) payment option with instant transfer or paypal balance results in no fee to the sender of the money. Using the "gift" payment option with a credit card or debit card results in the upfront payment of the fee by the sender. There is no fee assessed to the receiver whatsoever.

If you use the "traditional" payment method to send money via instant transfer or paypal balance, there is no fee assessed to the sender or receiver of that money. If you send payment via credit card or debit card, the receiver is assessed the transaction fee.

It's all here at this paypal link (external link).



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