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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 13 Apr 2010 (Tuesday) 05:14
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7D and 5D2 blowing faces at weddings ?

 
sapearl
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Apr 18, 2010 17:42 |  #31

Jerry, I'll ask a similar question to what I voiced before - because this happens to me once in a while too and I know why - are you metering/focusing off a dark area of the scene like a black tuxedo or dark coat? Again, not to be critical but it is very likely your technique and nothing wrong with the camera.

Have you tried it in Manual mode also with just the flash on Auto?

jerrybsmith wrote in post #10018004 (external link)
I have a 5D that will often blow out flash exposures. I've tried every possible exposure setting and it still happens. Not always but enough that I sent it to Canon for repair twice. Problem still exists enough that I replaced it with a 5DII and delegate it to backup or no flash settings.


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SuzyView
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Apr 18, 2010 18:31 |  #32

I don't use flash much. It annoys me. But I do use a bracket now. It's not perfect. I do use the 5D2 and 7D combo. I have a wedding in a month but it's outdoors. Should be a good learning experience for me as I've never done one with this combo before. I have 2 helpers so I should be okay.


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Rob ­ Wilkinson
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Apr 18, 2010 22:10 |  #33

sapearl wrote in post #10019506 (external link)
Jerry, I'll ask a similar question to what I voiced before - because this happens to me once in a while too and I know why - are you metering/focusing off a dark area of the scene like a black tuxedo or dark coat? Again, not to be critical but it is very likely your technique and nothing wrong with the camera.

Have you tried it in Manual mode also with just the flash on Auto?

I've heard the "metering off black tux" explanation before, but don't buy it in this instance. Look at the examples I posted on page 2 of this thread:

https://photography-on-the.net …hread.php?t=816​197&page=2

I spot metered off my face each time, and each time the flash gave a different output, only the first of which exposed my face properly. I've also had incidents where no matter where I point the camera or what I meter off, I still get massive flash overexposure of foreground subjects. It may very well be the black tuxes in 98% of cases, including the first images i posted in that thread (which turned out to be poor examples of my issue) but I can assure you it is not the case with the issue I'm having.

I'm seriously starting to think Canon is sandbagging with the new xxD series. I never ever ever have this issue with the same flash on a 1Ds mk3, black tuxes or not.


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sapearl
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Apr 18, 2010 22:20 |  #34

I have to agree Rob, that is pretty severe inconsistency and I'm at a loss as to explain what may be the issue.

Not every one of my flash shots is perfect, but I have to say that I've done several thousand of shots like these over the past 3+ years and have pretty consistent results. I don't spot meter, and will often do a pre-flash on neutral/middle tone carpetting, or even that brick wall you have in one of the pictures.

I am also shooting in (camera) manual mode, typically ISO 400 or 800, flash on Auto, with the shutter about 1/50 sec & aperture around f/6.3. Do you use similar settings Rob? I checked out the shots on your site, and for your interior flash work it looks like things are working very nicely. There's some great looking fill in most of them and the exposures look fine. So evidently it's a random thing.

Rob Wilkinson wrote in post #10020833 (external link)
I've heard the "metering off black tux" explanation before, but don't buy it in this instance. Look at the examples I posted on page 2 of this thread:

https://photography-on-the.net …hread.php?t=816​197&page=2

I spot metered off my face each time, and each time the flash gave a different output, only the first of which exposed my face properly. I've also had incidents where no matter where I point the camera or what I meter off, I still get massive flash overexposure of foreground subjects. It may very well be the black tuxes in 98% of cases, including the first images i posted in that thread (which turned out to be poor examples of my issue) but I can assure you it is not the case with the issue I'm having.

I'm seriously starting to think Canon is sandbagging with the new xxD series. I never ever ever have this issue with the same flash on a 1Ds mk3, black tuxes or not.


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Rob ­ Wilkinson
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Apr 18, 2010 22:28 as a reply to  @ sapearl's post |  #35

My settings will vary from scene to scene of course, but my camera is always on M, flash on E-ttl2 eval 1st curtain, generally around iso 4-800 1/90th f/2.8 or f/4.

Anytime the issue arises I just throw the flash itself into M and start at 1/128th power, but honestly I'm tired of having to scrap that first shot it overexposes. When it's me in pajamas at my house, I'm not worried. When it's a father's tear as his daughter walks down the aisle, then I get peeved. :)


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sapearl
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Apr 18, 2010 22:39 |  #36

I understand your frustration Rob.... sorry to hear it continues.

We have reasonably similar settings, the only possible significant difference is that you're working a lot down around f/2.8 with flash. I never go that low - certainly not that there is anything wrong with that as many her go that route - it just goes back to my old film days. I'm about 2.5 stops darker than you with my settings, and perhaps that's enough to make the tuxes look great but blow the faces. I dunno....:rolleyes:; maybe try the smaller aperture and see what happens.

Rob Wilkinson wrote in post #10020926 (external link)
My settings will vary from scene to scene of course, but my camera is always on M, flash on E-ttl2 eval 1st curtain, generally around iso 4-800 1/90th f/2.8 or f/4.....


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Rob ­ Wilkinson
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Apr 18, 2010 22:46 as a reply to  @ sapearl's post |  #37

Here's the kicker. Stopping down the aperture doesn't help, it just makes the background darker and darker while the subject stays blown out! Now THAT is frustrating...


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tim
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Apr 19, 2010 01:41 |  #38

jerrybsmith wrote in post #10018004 (external link)
I have a 5D that will often blow out flash exposures. I've tried every possible exposure setting and it still happens. Not always but enough that I sent it to Canon for repair twice. Problem still exists enough that I replaced it with a 5DII and delegate it to backup or no flash settings.

Does it do it with multiple flashes? It's usually to do with contacts with the flash, or the flash not being mounted properly.


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Apr 19, 2010 23:29 |  #39

I had this problem when I used to use a Gary Fong lightsphere on my old 20D and my old 5D (with a flash attached); I would get completely white images and had no idea why it was happening. Then I realized my Gary Fong had been making my flash too top-heavy. Yes, I know it's not a heavy piece of equipment but it wasn't the weight so much as the location on the flash: it was always bumping into something when I had the camera at my side. This eventually led to my hotshoe coming loose, which was what created my blown out images. I posted a thread just like this one and learned some valuable speedlight tips (like changing from Evaluative for outdoor fill flash to Average for indoor on-camera ETTL flash), but ultimately it was that lousy piece of tupperware on my 580EX or EXII that was the cause. Are you using such a piece of equipment? If not, did you buy a used 7D and 5D2; maybe the previous owner had the Gary Fong. It really sounds like it may be your contacts in the hotshoe, but I'd still suggest getting comfortable shooting in Manual mode; it's actually much easier to control in changing situations than you might think!


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Rob ­ Wilkinson
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Apr 20, 2010 00:12 as a reply to  @ PhotoMatte's post |  #40

Aaaaahhhh I use a PJ2 anytime I've got a good ceiling to work with. I've always been suspect of it. However, the screws under my hotshoe seem to be tight, but the flash itself has developed a very slight wiggle that I attributed to the extra weight and banging around of the lightsphere.

I'm also suspicious of the new locking mechanism of the 580ex2, in that you can't crank it down like you could the old wheel. Fully locked is fully locked whether it is loose or not.

Guess I should check those screws again and look into sending in the flash for a... tightening? :)

Thanks for the info.


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Apr 20, 2010 00:21 |  #41

Rob Wilkinson wrote in post #10028397 (external link)
Aaaaahhhh I use a PJ2 anytime I've got a good ceiling to work with. I've always been suspect of it. However, the screws under my hotshoe seem to be tight, but the flash itself has developed a very slight wiggle that I attributed to the extra weight and banging around of the lightsphere.

I'm also suspicious of the new locking mechanism of the 580ex2, in that you can't crank it down like you could the old wheel. Fully locked is fully locked whether it is loose or not.

Guess I should check those screws again and look into sending in the flash for a... tightening? :)

Thanks for the info.


Rob, you may just need to tighten the hotshoe on your camera body; that was all it took for me. The flash hadn't been damaged at all; it was just the connection between the flash and hotshoe that wasn't working and I'm fairly certain the Lightsphere was the culprit (the flash placed too much torque on the camera's hotshoe when the flash had the lightsphere attached to it, and all the bumps just made it worse...kind of like how loose lugnuts on your wheel will eventually rattle off if you're driving over a bumpy road).


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Rob ­ Wilkinson
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Apr 20, 2010 00:57 as a reply to  @ PhotoMatte's post |  #42

I just took apart the base of the flash and made sure everything was tight, which it was.

Next is to check the hotshoe screws again...


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kenwood33
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Apr 20, 2010 15:36 |  #43

when i first got the 580ex2 a couple years ago, i notice that it keeps overexposing,
i reset all the custom function and it seems to be fine
another thing to check is to ensure HHS is on
its easy to forget when you transition from indoor to outdoor and the shutter speed went above 1/250


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Rob ­ Wilkinson
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Apr 20, 2010 16:27 as a reply to  @ kenwood33's post |  #44

That was my first course of action, I reset all flash settings and custom functions to no avail.

High speed sync doesn't seem to make any difference either.

After I took the flash apart last night, I re-checked the 2 hotshoe mount screws and they were still tight as well. That's a total of 16 screws that are tightened down properly, but the flash still wiggles around the new locking mechanism and I'm almost positive that is what is causing the problem for everyone that is experiencing massive overexposure and random flash assist beam failure. I didn't make the connection between the overexposure and assist beam failure until last night, but knowing now that those two issues go hand in hand, this just SCREAMS defect in the new locking mechanism... It never happened on any 420 or original 580 I used because the wheel always allowed you to crank it down really well, and the flash body certainly did not wiggle around the lock. However, looking in the base of the flash last night, I couldn't really see any connection that would be lost due to that slight wiggle. Everything was well soldered and solid...

Ugh. What's this I hear about Nikons having great flash systems? ;)


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Pigsy
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Apr 20, 2010 17:45 as a reply to  @ post 9998175 |  #45

Hi Guys,
Just for what it's worth. I was trawling some older posts, and came across this quote from Tim back in Feb 09

"Also using ETTL you do occasionally get some weird results. In long grass the other weekend I had 95% good exposures, but 5% were two stops overexposed with the same framing. I have no idea why".

Ah ha ! , I'm telling you, it's a weird Canon bug that they won't admit to ...

I'm out tomorrow again for an E-Shoot, so I'm cleaning all contacts with alcohol before I go out, and removing my stofens to shott naked, and we'll see what happens.
Rob, I have the same slightly loose feeling to both my mounts also, but just like you, everything is screwed down real tight.

None, and I mean none of this ever happened with my 40Ds

Will report back soon.

Jim..


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7D and 5D2 blowing faces at weddings ?
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