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Thread started 23 May 2010 (Sunday) 01:25
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Bag security - anyone seen Steelcore or SPT lockable straps?

 
kuchars22
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May 23, 2010 01:25 |  #1

I've been searching for a suitable deterrant/security device to lock down a bag in those short times when it is left alone. For example, if I am shooting an event or wedding and all I want to take with me is one body and lens, and leave the second one and all other kit in the bag. I have a Vertex 200, and have looked at the Pacsafe mesh, which to me, is pants and very inconvenient in these situations, not to mention cutting myself TWICE by a loose strand of wire whilst testing it in a shop.

I came across these straps from the US, called Steelcore (steelcore.net) which are basically tie-down straps but with a steel core cable running through the length of the webbing (withstands 1500Ib of jaw pressure), and a lockable buckle. Here in the UK, we have SPT straps, designed and sold in surfing and snowboarding shops, these look better and have twin cables through the webbing.

I was thinking of getting a pair and basically wrapping it around my Vertex into a "cross" to cover both vertical and horizontal aspects of the bag, and then using this as a harness to attach a steel cable and then wrap around a solid object. What do you think, does anyone use one?

http://www.steelcore.n​et (external link)
http://www.stickprotec​tion.com/pro_snow.htm (external link)


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jnaks
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May 23, 2010 01:50 |  #2

wish they made something similar that could go through zipper holes.


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Jon
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May 23, 2010 10:07 |  #3

Thought about the PacSafe eXoMesh pack covers (external link)?


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kuchars22
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May 23, 2010 14:05 |  #4

Jon wrote in post #10230823 (external link)
Thought about the PacSafe eXoMesh pack covers (external link)?

Yes I did, I already mentioned that in my OP. a bit naff for me, too many "love handles" for my liking, and I don't think it's convenient - already cut myself from a stray strand of wire before I even bought one in the shop during a demo!


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hyt
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May 23, 2010 14:26 |  #5

My solution is a Pelican 1510 carry-on roller that is locked closed, then tied to a pipe or furnace with a bike lock. The problem with straps and meshes is that they don't protect your bag from spills and other accidents (like getting stepped on or kicked) in event/wedding situations. The Pelican 1510 is a hard sided case.




  
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kuchars22
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May 23, 2010 14:34 |  #6

hyt wrote in post #10231856 (external link)
My solution is a Pelican 1510 carry-on roller that is locked closed, then tied to a pipe or furnace with a bike lock. The problem with straps and meshes is that they don't protect your bag from spills and other accidents (like getting stepped on or kicked) in event/wedding situations. The Pelican 1510 is a hard sided case.

Yes, a peli case is the ultimate, and maybe it is one that I will consider in the future but I don't do any weddings yet. If you don't have a peli case, you can't have it all so I'm trying to do what I can with my Vertex.

Thanks


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hyt
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May 23, 2010 15:33 |  #7

Well, a Steelcore is useless with your Vertex because it doesn't prevent a thief from easily cutting through the fabric of your bag. You might as well not even bother. I bought my Pelican 1510 as just the hard shell, without the internal foam. I primarily use it as a hotel room safe. I check it as my suitcase on the plane, carrying my clothes and toiletries. When I get to my destination, I empty it - usually my hotel room has shelves or a dresser and my clothes go there. Then I put my netbook and spare camera inside the Pelican, lock it shut with a padlock, and secure it to the bed frame or room furnace with a bike lock when I'm out for the day. In the evening, when I don't want to take my camera bag with me, my bag also gets thrown inside the Pelican and I go to the restaurant/bar with just one camera and attached lens on my shoulder. No problems so far. The fact that the Pelican also protects my gear from spills and being stepped on or tripped over is just a bonus for the rare occasions that I need it for events.

It's much less of a pain in the rear than your proposed idea of crisscrossing steel straps, and it also works a lot better because, while obviously not completely bulletproof, it will still take a lot more than a razor blade to steal my gear.




  
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kuchars22
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May 23, 2010 16:29 |  #8

hyt wrote in post #10232171 (external link)
Well, a Steelcore is useless with your Vertex because it doesn't prevent a thief from easily cutting through the fabric of your bag. You might as well not even bother.

What you said is like saying: "you might as well not lock the car, the thief can smash through the window anyway", or "you might as well leave you front door unlocked as they may bulldoze through the wall". If everyone was paranoid and thought like you, sales of Peli cases would be rocketing through the roof! Every pro would have a Peli case, their homes would be surrounded by a 10ft spiked wall, their car would be charged by electric force-field. The point I am making, is that it is not practical for everyone to buy the ULTIMATE protection for everything they value, even their home and car. A Peli case isn't right for everyone for their own personal reasons, and nor is a an electric force-field for their car (alright, I made this one up, but I hope you get my point). I understand the Peli case's value, and I may consider one in the future, but before I do, I already have a Vertex bag so this is what I have and this is where I am. Slashing a bag with a knife in a wedding is a much slimmer crime than to walk away with the entire bag. Locking it down is the easiest route to reduce the chances of the bag going walkies, and you would be stupid not to do this as your first defence.


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hyt
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May 23, 2010 17:27 |  #9

kuchars22 wrote in post #10232430 (external link)
If everyone was paranoid and thought like you,

Hey, I haven't stooped to name-calling so let's keep this civil, shall we? You asked for suggestions, and I'm giving you one, and also explaining why your idea won't work at all. You said you haven't shot a wedding yet. I have, and know others who have, and I know quite a few who have had gear stolen or bags cut into. I'm speaking from experience. If you don't like or agree with what I'm saying, then that's fine, but leave the insults at the door. Or better yet, don't ask for suggestions at all, and simply learn from your own mistakes, since you obviously seem to know so much more than anyone else does.

kuchars22 wrote in post #10232430 (external link)
The point I am making, is that it is not practical for everyone to buy the ULTIMATE protection for everything they value, even their home and car.

No, it's not, and that's why there is something called INSURANCE. But OK, point taken. I just checked the price of your Steelcore and SPT cables and they seem to run $85-$199. A Pelican 1510 No-Foam is $120 at Adorama (external link). Even if you were to buy the cheapest Steelcore/SPT, that's a price difference of $35 for "ULTIMATE protection" (your words, not mine) vs a non-working idea. I see in your signature that, among other things, you own a $2000+ camera and three L lenses. Is $35 really that much of a stretch for you?

Besides, you were already considering the Pacsafe mesh, which is basically the same idea (securing AND slashproofing the bag) except you cut yourself on a stray wire. The solution I proposed solves the stray wire issue. So what your problem is, I honestly don't know.




  
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kuchars22
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May 24, 2010 01:19 |  #10

hyt wrote in post #10232645 (external link)
Hey, I haven't stooped to name-calling so let's keep this civil, shall we? You asked for suggestions, and I'm giving you one, and also explaining why your idea won't work at all. You said you haven't shot a wedding yet. I have, and know others who have, and I know quite a few who have had gear stolen or bags cut into. I'm speaking from experience. If you don't like or agree with what I'm saying, then that's fine, but leave the insults at the door. Or better yet, don't ask for suggestions at all, and simply learn from your own mistakes, since you obviously seem to know so much more than anyone else does.

No, it's not, and that's why there is something called INSURANCE. But OK, point taken. I just checked the price of your Steelcore and SPT cables and they seem to run $85-$199. A Pelican 1510 No-Foam is $120 at Adorama (external link). Even if you were to buy the cheapest Steelcore/SPT, that's a price difference of $35 for "ULTIMATE protection" (your words, not mine) vs a non-working idea. I see in your signature that, among other things, you own a $2000+ camera and three L lenses. Is $35 really that much of a stretch for you?

Besides, you were already considering the Pacsafe mesh, which is basically the same idea (securing AND slashproofing the bag) except you cut yourself on a stray wire. The solution I proposed solves the stray wire issue. So what your problem is, I honestly don't know.

Exactly how have I personally insulted you? Telling me that putting a simple deterrent "isn't going to work at all" and is "useless" isn't exactly helpful is it? I am pointing out you ignorance to simple security measures to everyday opportunists, not the Charles Bronsons of the world. You are telling owners of non-Peli cases not to bother with any kind of security, just because someone can circumnavigate it.

Ok, since you have difficulty understanding the OP's brief, I'll repeat in simple terms:

Primary Objective:
Enhance security by reducing or eliminating the opportunist thief from removing a bag from its immediate premises.

Secondary Objective:
Enhance security by reducing or eliminating the opportunist thief from removing articles from the bag.

Restrictions and limitations:
1) Must work with the existing bag (Vertex 200).
2) Must be below a budget of £50 (SPT cables are £29 per pair here in the UK!).

Out-of-scope:
1) Prevention of theft or removal of articles by determined thieves, such that considerable damage to either bag or attached property, or otherwise other extreme measures are taken to ensure that both objectives fail.
2) A Peli case or other similar product (for the short-term).

And it doesn't matter whether you have shot a wedding or not, or whether I have. This situation isn't unique to the photography industry. I am also a golfer, and bag security is also as important and I have seen cars broken into to get clubs out. However, I have also seen on CCTV people running away from a car empty handed because the owner of the car had simply locked the bag to the chassis hook in the boot/trunk. Simple procedures like this can make a difference. Of course, the thief could steal the entire car, get a pneumatic bolt-cutter, sit there with a razor blade...but this isn't what it is about.

As I said, I may consider a Peli case in the future depending on how much work I have (I'm with you on this one...believe me, I know what they do, we have several at work), but at this moment in time, I'll make do with what I have, and advising not to employ any kind of simple security on a bag to someone is foolish. I can't emphasise enough that I agree with you on a peli case. What more do you want from me, do you want me to sell the Vertex and get a Peli?

So these are not insults, I'm trying to make you understand what I already have and you have gone off the brief. Let me ask you a question: do you put a wheel-clamp on your car each time you leave it? Do you use anti-smash n grab glass film on your car windows? Do you have tinted windows?


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hyt
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May 24, 2010 08:50 |  #11

kuchars22 wrote in post #10234686 (external link)
Primary Objective:
Enhance security by reducing or eliminating the opportunist thief from removing a bag from its immediate premises.

A thief isn't interested in your bag. A thief is interested in what's INSIDE it. Thieves aren't necessarily the morons you assume them to be. The sooner you realize this, the better.

kuchars22 wrote in post #10234686 (external link)
Secondary Objective:
Enhance security by reducing or eliminating the opportunist thief from removing articles from the bag.

Which your strap idea doesn't solve - at all.

kuchars22 wrote in post #10234686 (external link)
Restrictions and limitations:
1) Must work with the existing bag (Vertex 200).
2) Must be below a budget of £50 (SPT cables are £29 per pair here in the UK!).

The Pelican without internal foam works with your Vertex, or any reasonably sized camera bag; you just throw your bag inside it. Is that so hard to understand? Also, I don't quite understand having a double-digit budget to protect several thousand dollars in gear, your reputation, and your clients' once-in-a-lifetime images.

kuchars22 wrote in post #10234686 (external link)
What more do you want from me, do you want me to sell the Vertex and get a Peli?

Where, in any of my posts in this thread, have I suggested that you sell your Vertex?

kuchars22 wrote in post #10234686 (external link)
Let me ask you a question: do you put a wheel-clamp on your car each time you leave it? Do you use anti-smash n grab glass film on your car windows? Do you have tinted windows?

No, my car is equipped standard with a transponder keyless entry, it's a hybrid so it can't be hotwired, I'm not dumb enough to leave valuables inside it, and front driver/passenger window tinting is illegal in my state, to answer your questions. Of course, none of this prevents it from being stolen by a truly determined thief, and that's why I have insurance. Unfortunately, insurance isn't going to help you if you're at a paid gig, the gear you have on your person fails, or you need to switch gear for a certain part of the assignment (fast telephoto for ceremony, or off-camera lighting for formals, for example), and you go back to your bag only to find its contents broken or missing. What you call paranoia, I call customer service - I minimize the chances of something happening that will interfere with my ability to deliver the goods.

The ability to consistently and reliably deliver the goods to a paying client is what separates a professional photographer from an amateur.

Here is something you obviously don't get since you keep bringing up one's personal belongings as analogies: Wedding photography isn't about me, myself, or I. It's about the client and one of the most significant days in their lives. A car is replaceable. But your clients aren't going to get married all over again just because you screwed up - it's one chance and one chance only to get it right. Until you figure this part out, you're not ready to even think about taking on paying gigs. Since you self-admittedly have never shot a single wedding, I'm not surprised that you don't quite understand the fact that anything that can go wrong, will. Of course, this all seems to your inexperienced and naive mind like the ravings of a paranoid madman. So don't take my word for it; have a read of this thread:

Preventing equipment damage or theft (external link)

If you still don't get it, then I'm afraid no one can or will help you, and the next time we'll see you is when you come back crying on the boards because something went wrong and now you have nothing to deliver for the $$$ you charged to a paying client. Or maybe it'll be a disgruntled bride who goes on the internet to drag your name through the mud because she's missing key images due to the fact that you failed to properly secure your gear (or some other reason arising from your apparently haphazard attitude) - Google Cache has a really good memory, and once something like this happens, you're done. In all truthfulness, I actually don't care about you so much as I care about the future client you'll inevitably screw over. But sometimes, one must realize that: a) talking to a teflon-coated brick wall is a futile waste of time and energy, and b) some people just won't learn unless it's the hard way. I guess I'll see you around.




  
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kuchars22
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May 24, 2010 09:40 |  #12

hyt wrote in post #10235860 (external link)
A thief isn't interested in your bag. A thief is interested in what's INSIDE it. It's foolish to assume that all thieves are idiots.

Which your strap idea doesn't solve.

The Pelican without internal foam works with your Vertex; you just throw your bag inside it. Is that so hard to understand? Also, I don't quite understand having a double-digit budget to protect several thousand dollars in gear.

Where, in any of my posts in this thread, have I suggested that you sell your Vertex?

No, I have insurance for my car. Unfortunately, insurance isn't going to help you if you're at a paid gig, the gear you have on your person fails, or you need to switch gear for a certain part of the assignment (lighting for formals, for example), and you go back to your bag only to find its contents broken or missing. What you call paranoia, I call customer service - I minimize the chances of something happening that will interfere with my ability to deliver the goods.

Wedding photography isn't about me, myself, or I. It's about the client and one of the most significant days in their lives. Until you figure this part out, you're not ready to even think about taking on paying gigs. Since you self-admittedly have never shot a single wedding, I'm not surprised that you don't quite understand the fact that anything that can go wrong, will. Of course, this all seems to your inexperienced and naive mind like the ravings of a paranoid madman. So don't take my word for it; have a read of this thread:

Preventing equipment damage or theft (external link)

If you still don't get it, then I'm afraid no one can or will help you, and the next time we'll see you is when you come back crying on the boards because something went wrong and now you have nothing to deliver for the $$$ you charged to a paying client. I actually don't care about you so much as I care about the future client you'll inevitably screw over with your haphazard attitude. But sometimes, one must realize that talking to a teflon-coated brick wall is a futile waste of time and energy. I guess I'll see you around.

Good morning, hyt! Man, you are wound up, aren't you! You don't read the words I write, but I will spell it out for you:

"I AGREE WITH THE PELI CONCEPT. BUT I DON'T PLAN TO BUY ONE RIGHT NOW."

So please do not continue to tell me that I don't get it, because I do - please re-read my posts and you will see that I have understood it. It is you that do not understand that I have even said it (several times over)! If I do buy one, it'll probably replace my Vertex, which means having to sell it.

I am not a wedding photographer, but an amatuer looking to work with one this summer. My Vertex works very well in most situations where I need to carry my kit. I am not going to purchase a peli case right now until I get a steady flow of wedding work, until then, both bodies will on my person, unless I know the kit will be a safe place, or I have an interim solution to REDUCE OR ELIMINATE theft of bag and/or goods. Yes, hyt, it won't solve the problem completely, I understand that, and it is a compromise, but if you can't contribute to my objectives, please leave this thread quietly (don't trip over the peli case on your way out). I've seen many wedding photogs not using a peli case. According to you, they don't get it either. See you, hyt.


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hyt
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May 24, 2010 10:04 |  #13

kuchars22 wrote in post #10236056 (external link)
Good morning, hyt! Man, you are wound up, aren't you!

Not really wound up, just realizing that these boards are archived and that future readers may land here through a Google search for related topics. In this case, the message is: "Don't be this guy - risks messing up a client's once-in-a-lifetime images because he's too cheap to secure his gear properly."

kuchars22 wrote in post #10236056 (external link)
"I AGREE WITH THE PELI CONCEPT. BUT I DON'T PLAN TO BUY ONE RIGHT NOW."

OK, so why do you call it "paranoid" and compare it to an "electric force-field"? Are there two different people named kuchars22 writing your responses? Or just a troll?

kuchars22 wrote in post #10236056 (external link)
I've seen many wedding photogs not using a peli case.

Well, not all porn stars use condoms, either. Doesn't mean it's a good idea not to. (external link)




  
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kuchars22
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May 24, 2010 10:14 |  #14

hyt wrote in post #10236190 (external link)
OK, so why do you call it "paranoid" and compare it to an "electric force-field"? Are there two different people named kuchars22 writing your responses? Or just a troll?

I am calling you paranoid because you persistantly think every one MUST use a Peli case and you dismiss any other form of security as being "useless"


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Bag security - anyone seen Steelcore or SPT lockable straps?
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