Newbie Guide: Choosing strobes between Elinchrom and Paul C Buff (part 1)

this thread is for facts not opinions

ATXsouljah wrote in post #10262875
this thread doesn't say it was made for others opinion, it is for FACTS.

You clearly don't understand what lowcrust or I meant. "Brand X is teh sux0rs" is obviously worthless but simply regurgitating FACTS off the company's website is not much better.

For example, Elinchrom's website mentions that their umbrellas use shafts that are 7mm in diameter. What is missing is the context that makes it useful. How many other companies make umbrellas with 7mm diameter shafts? What happens when you buy a brolley box from another company and discover that it has an 8mm shaft and cannot be used with your Elinchrom strobe? Or are there enough companies on the market making Elinchrom compatible accessories so this isn't an issue?

That is the type of useful information that comes from experienced users and is the type of information that you wouldn't even know to ask about if you are a newbie coming to this thread for advice.

lowcrust wrote in post #10262442
Thanks, I was just about to post exactly what you said!

ATXsouljah wrote in post #10262875
this thread is for facts not opinions

krb wrote in post #10263022
You clearly don't understand what lowcrust or I meant. "Brand X is teh sux0rs" is obviously worthless but simply regurgitating FACTS off the company's website is not much better.

For example, Elinchrom's website mentions that their umbrellas use shafts that are 7mm in diameter. What is missing is the context that makes it useful. How many other companies make umbrellas with 7mm diameter shafts? What happens when you buy a brolley box from another company and discover that it has an 8mm shaft and cannot be used with your Elinchrom strobe? Or are there enough companies on the market making Elinchrom compatible accessories so this isn't an issue?

That is the type of useful information that comes from experienced users and is the type of information that you wouldn't even know to ask about if you are a newbie coming to this thread for advice.

Hey, guys. I didn't want the thread to go in a direction where it would end up becoming a back and forth between anti-Elinchrom and anti-PCB. That's all.

This thread isn't just to go in and put in your two cents without a newbie asking for it and without you supporting it with valid facts. I didn't mean to offend blam in the first page, but I hope I can clarify things this time.

Just because the discussion starts with comparisons (so that newbies may begin somewhere and see facts in one place so they may start asking their real questions), that doesn't mean that this thread should only be about the numbers in the chart, etc. I will try to answer any questions the best I can without putting down any brand for their shortcomings and support it with something (a link, a reference, etc.) The last thing we want is someone who will say speculations without ever owning anything that is being discussed kind of like how many Canon vs. Nikon discussions end up.

If you guys really feel this thread is worthless and pointless because it's absolutely and completely useless to you, either ignore it or start a petition for it to be removed by the moderators. There's really nothing more to it.

I know not many here will believe it, but I'm really not a pro-Elinchrom and anti-PCB person. I owned PCB stuff and then own a few more after I became an Elinchrom user and plan to still own more of his stuff. Just in case some of you guys here think this is a campaign I'm starting against PCB, you're wrong. I'm just trying to raise awareness for newbies to lighting the best way I can think of without the whole back and forth thing.

FYI, after switching to Elinchrom, I still own a Vagabond II and think very highly of it despite the few problems they've been having, a Baby Boomer, and BD sock. In the future, I hope to own a 7mm shaft PLM v2 and a Baby Boomer for each strobe I own.

I currently own 2 canon 580 exII speedlites and about to purchase the ste2 so i can shoot them wirelessly. I was thinking about purchasing one ab800 and use it as my main light and the speedlites as fill and backlighting. Has anyone here tried using this? If so, what are the pros and cons of it?

Good work, Sean. It's also interesting to note that the v2 PLMs from Paul C Buff (AlienBees), which is due about six weeks from now will have a 7mm shaft so it works with the Elinchroms. (Seeing as we're now (sensibly) talking about modifiers as well.)

I'm sorry if I derailed your thread further Sean, it really wasn't my intention. It's just I find it weird, and yes I do hear what you're saying, that blam couldn't add some useful perspective to your thread. If it's JUST about the facts and your tables, then might I be so bold as to come with two suggestions;

1. Ask a moderator to split your original post away from this thread and have then LOCK it. I really don't see how a couple of pages of "good idea Sean" would be more helpful than a couple of actual users adding some insight (or even some cold facts between the lines). This is a discussion board after all.

2. If you're aiming for that one stop resource for total newbies to this topic, I think you could do some improvements on the readability and make it a tad more pedagogical.

The above was said with the utmost respect for the fact that you're trying to help others, so a preemptive "sorry" if it came across as otherwise.

In all fairness, let's give Sean a break here. Anyone that takes time to compile information and present it is trying to help. Maybe it helps some, maybe it doesn't. Maybe you could just go to the manufacturer's sites or to B&H and get the information but it's all here in one place and the effort was made to help other forum members.

TMR Design wrote in post #10266552
In all fairness, let's give Sean a break here. Anyone that takes time to compile information and present it is trying to help. Maybe it helps some, maybe it doesn't. Maybe you could just go to the manufacturer's sites or to B&H and get the information but it's all here in one place and the effort was made to help other forum members.

Thats right, this is the type of stuff the smart consumer is going to do anyway on their own. The fact that someone has taken the time to lay it all out for them is wonderful and was merely done to help.

I'm not knocking Sean's work, I think this is a great idea.

My issue is that it can be so much more valuable if experienced users of these products can chime in to provide context for the information in the charts and tell us what we need to know that doesn't show up in the charts.

krb wrote in post #10267356
I'm not knocking Sean's work, I think this is a great idea.

My issue is that it can be so much more valuable if experienced users of these products can chime in to provide context for the information in the charts and tell us what we need to know that doesn't show up in the charts.

Exactly. Anyone can compile a table of published features. It takes insight to the products, from actual usage, to be able to point out issues, like when one of the products cannot produce easily reproducible power settings because it uses an analog slider with no detents at established positions for easily repeatable settings.

Great thread to start my journey towards buying a strobe.

I have a question: I plan to do more on site than studio work, can I use the Dlite 4 with a battery system out on location or I need to get a ranger rx?

Can I use the VB with elincrhon strobe?

The problem with the D-Lite and BxRi is that they are multi-voltage and automatically switch the voltage. Most battery packs cannot handle this.

Some people say that the VB will work with Elinchrom lights but AB says they are only tested with their own lights so if something gets fried then you are on your own.

Innovatronix makes a battery pack that works well with Elinchrom, but it can only support one light per battery back so it is expensive if you want to use 2 or 3 lights on location. They have announced new models coming soon that will support more than one light per battery pack and that's what I am holding out for.

krb wrote in post #11929416
They have announced new models coming soon that will support more than one light per battery pack and that's what I am holding out for.

As of right now Innovatronix has not made this statement. All they are saying is that they are addressing the issues of digitally controlled and bi-voltage strobes.

so as of now my only option would be to
1. Go for the elinchrom ranger (quadra) around 1.5K$
or
2. AB1600 with VB around 800$ incl stand and plm 64
i guess

only thing is that I would have to use my shop and ship account and have them first shipped to NY and then Aramex will ship it to dubai for me
now have to check how much would be the int shipping if the difference after adding in the shipping is couple of hundred $$$ then iu may go for elinchrom which is available locally.

BTW is anyone planning to come down to dubai soon?