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Thread started 20 Jun 2010 (Sunday) 13:58
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Dodge & Burn - Best Method?

 
THE ­ TROOPER
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Jun 21, 2010 04:11 |  #16

Im a dinosaur! I didn't even know about the process of painting with black/white on a 50% grey.

Sounds good, gonna give it a whirl.


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SiriS
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Jun 21, 2010 04:15 as a reply to  @ post 10398733 |  #17

I usually duplicate the layer, set to Overlay/Multiply/Scree​n - then add a mask and paint in the areas I want to have darker/lighter - then adjust opacity to taste.

Sometimes I may fine tune further with the dodge/burn tools, but not often.


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Damo77
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Jun 21, 2010 04:47 |  #18

SiriS wrote in post #10398891 (external link)
I usually duplicate the layer, set to Overlay/Multiply/Scree​n - then add a mask and paint in the areas I want to have darker/lighter - then adjust opacity to taste.

If you must use that method (and I definitely don't recommend it) don't duplicate the layer. Just use an adjustment layer - any one, it doesn't matter - and set it to the desired blend mode. The advantages are twofold - 1) you're not doubling your file size, and 2) the layer has a mask attached already, so you don't need to waste time adding one.


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Damo77
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Jun 21, 2010 05:01 |  #19

tonylong wrote in post #10398733 (external link)
Think of exposure blending of dually-processed Raw files as a prime example -- if you think about it, the layers are actually duplicates of the original image. How you blend they layers together requires some skill and tweaking of the fine points.

I can't understand your determination to defend the indefensible; and I'm not really sure why we're debating this. As I've said many times, I don't care how people edit in the privacy of their own homes; but on a forum such as this one, I feel we have a duty (out of common courtesy if nothing else) to advise best practice to folk who come seeking help.

In a non-destructive workflow, pixel layers must be used at the bottom of the layer stack. Because no other layers can exist below them and still be re-adjustable. Therefore, your analogy isn't apt. Exposure blending, by its nature, has to happen at the very beginning of the Photoshop part of a workflow; and all other editing then happens above that, to the combined image.

If dodge and burn on a duplicate pixel layer is to adhere to the principle of the non-destructive workflow, it must be done as the very first step, immediately above the Background layer. While this might be practical sometimes, it certainly won't always be. I'd say it's fairly common to need at very least a curves adjustment layer, or whatever, before the more precise matter of D&B.


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SiriS
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Jun 21, 2010 05:30 |  #20

Damo77 wrote in post #10398943 (external link)
If you must use that method (and I definitely don't recommend it) don't duplicate the layer. Just use an adjustment layer - any one, it doesn't matter - and set it to the desired blend mode. The advantages are twofold - 1) you're not doubling your file size, and 2) the layer has a mask attached already, so you don't need to waste time adding one.

Damo77 wrote in post #10398971 (external link)
In a non-destructive workflow, pixel layers must be used at the bottom of the layer stack. Because no other layers can exist below them and still be re-adjustable. Therefore, your analogy isn't apt. Exposure blending, by its nature, has to happen at the very beginning of the Photoshop part of a workflow; and all other editing then happens above that, to the combined image.

You make good points Damo. Something I've been battling with is how to manage all the layers - and still have the ability to always be able to go back and change any adjustments I've made.

For instance I would typically adjust levels, contrast and lighting. Then maybe a selective sharpening (or dodge and burning) by masking. I would then have to Shift-Ctrl-Alt-E (stamp tool) to create a new layer for further adjustments. Which means it's impossible to go back without deleting layers.

I will experiment some more with adjustment layers and 50% gray layers to make my process more efficient (and easier). Practice, practice, practice...


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Damo77
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Jun 21, 2010 06:18 |  #21

For a bit of general info, check my post here (external link). But for more specific advice, I suggest you tell us exactly what adjustments you are making that require the Stamp-Visible move; and we'll probably be able to suggest a non-destructive alternative.


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SiriS
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Jun 21, 2010 06:29 |  #22

Damo77 wrote in post #10399124 (external link)
For a bit of general info, check my post here (external link). But for more specific advice, I suggest you tell us exactly what adjustments you are making that require the Stamp-Visible move; and we'll probably be able to suggest a non-destructive alternative.

Nice link, thanks! It's mostly just bad habit (I typically don't keep the .psd files so size is not an issue, but going back during editing obviously is).

I will experiment tonight and bug you guys tomorrow if I come across any problems. :)


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René ­ Damkot
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Jun 21, 2010 06:47 |  #23

Pennington wrote in post #10395822 (external link)
That's the method I use too - have for years. Two reasons why I think it's the best way: A) It's a separate layer, so you've got complete control over it, and B) it's non-destructive to the original image.

That said, I will sometimes use the D&B tools themselves, when I need to use their shadows/midtones/highl​ights only selections.

Same here.
Sometimes the D&B tools have an advantage. (PSCS4 and newer, the tool was utter crap in older versions)


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Jun 21, 2010 16:10 |  #24

D Thompson wrote in post #10397313 (external link)
I paint black/white on a 50% grey layer with the blend mode set to softlight using a 100% opacity, 3-5% flow, soft edged brush also set to softlight mode. Used it for several years now.

Can you explain a little further on this. I'm familiar with everything preceding it, but not really sure about set a brush to different modes. I normally set the clone stamp tool to different modes, but didn't know it was possible with a regular brush.


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D ­ Thompson
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Jun 21, 2010 16:48 |  #25

BluewookieJim wrote in post #10402382 (external link)
Can you explain a little further on this. I'm familiar with everything preceding it, but not really sure about set a brush to different modes. I normally set the clone stamp tool to different modes, but didn't know it was possible with a regular brush.

Yeah, I'll change the blend mode on the clone stamp as well, usually either lighten or darken depending. Setting the regular brush to softlight gives me a little more control it seems. It builds up slower. I seem to get better results using it that way.


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BluewookieJim
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Jun 21, 2010 17:39 |  #26

Wow, it's kind of embarassing to admit, but the mode setting, sitting right there next to the opacity on the brush tool never clicked with me... even though I use it with the clone stamp tool... duh!


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Tom ­ K.
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Jun 21, 2010 17:56 |  #27

Of course there is always this great video tutorial from Photoshop developer Russell Brown:

http://av.adobe.com/ru​ssellbrown/SoftDodgeSM​.mov (external link)


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dcran
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Jun 21, 2010 17:56 |  #28

I have used the Totally Rad Actions yin and yang action to produce good DB effects. Has anyone else tried these?. It basically creates two curves adjustment layers that are masked, one for dodging and one for burning. I find the best results by using a soft brush at about 10% opacity.


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Dodge & Burn - Best Method?
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