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Thread started 06 Jul 2010 (Tuesday) 00:35
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using the depth of field of wide angle lens?

 
ckckevin
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Jul 06, 2010 00:35 |  #1

Just a little curiosity, recently i've using my 30mm 1.4 wide open for lighting reason rather than using because of it's depth of field. I actually feel kinda sad about it. Any body using any wide prime (30mm or wider) for DOF reason more?

The only time i use 30mm 1.4 because of it's dof is only for portraiture, but since it is so wide for portraiture, i hardly use it for that reason because i have to get so close up to the person, so i hardly use it. Anybody care to chip in their thought?


Kevin life= learning
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EdWood
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Jul 06, 2010 01:18 |  #2

Not sure I understand your question. An old wide angle trick is to set the focus on manual, stop down to F8 or so, then readjust the focus point so everything from just few feet to infinity is sharp.




  
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ckckevin
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Jul 06, 2010 02:28 |  #3

That's the hyperfocal distance (I believe that's how you spell it?) that you play with with the "trick".

But what my question is asking is that, since wide angle primes are usually not as suitable for portraiture, is there too many people out there using the "Shallow" DOF of the wide open primes for shallow dof effect, rather than using the wide angle lens at wide open just for the few more stops of light to gather at wide open. And whether is there any other photography technique/style that uses the shallow dof of the wide angle lens (which intrinsically they don't have much "shallow" dof in the first place)?

sorry for the confusing words.


Kevin life= learning
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EdWood
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Jul 06, 2010 02:36 |  #4

Now I understand. For those using a full frame camera like the 5D, this technique is very popular with the movie crowd. They love their shallow DOF, and will stack ND filters to achieve this goal.




  
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tkbslc
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Jul 06, 2010 02:39 |  #5

The SIgma 30mm is not a wide angle prime, so I am not sure what you mean. No it does not have the same compression effect as say an 85mm f1.8, but it does have identical DOF at the same framing.

I use mine for portraits and candids where I want to preserve the environment, or want a full body shot without stepping way back.

Like so:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


No the background isn't blurred to a single color like with a 135L, but it certainly pops the subject out from the environment. Or really, just whatever. It is a nice sharp lens that can be used in almost any light and with any DOF.

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Tim ­ Park
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Jul 06, 2010 03:02 |  #6

I purchased my 24LII primarily because I wanted the shallow dof capabilities in a wide angle lens for event coverage. Of course, a wide angle won't give you the creamy bokeh of a telephoto (unless you're really close), but I like the separation it gives while still preserving the environment. Here are a few examples...

1.

IMAGE: http://timhpark.com/images/dani-rachel-10d.jpg

2.
IMAGE: http://timhpark.com/images/eli-18.jpg

3.
IMAGE: http://timhpark.com/images/eli-22.jpg

4.
IMAGE: http://timhpark.com/images/jane-patrick-12.jpg

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ckckevin
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Jul 06, 2010 03:34 |  #7

tkbslc wrote in post #10484410 (external link)
The SIgma 30mm is not a wide angle prime, so I am not sure what you mean. No it does not have the same compression effect as say an 85mm f1.8, but it does have identical DOF at the same framing.

I use mine for portraits and candids where I want to preserve the environment, or want a full body shot without stepping way back.

No the background isn't blurred to a single color like with a 135L, but it certainly pops the subject out from the environment. Or really, just whatever. It is a nice sharp lens that can be used in almost any light and with any DOF.

I just thought 30mm is a little too "invasive" to use for portraiture (I guess i like head shot more rather than full body, and for some reason i've never develop a liking towards full body shots), so that's why i have such a hard time using 30mm for portraiture. And now most of the time, i use it at a distance capturing a certain scenery, or events. So that's why i'm mostly using it's wide aperture just for light.

"candids where I want to preserve the environment" That's the exactly what i'm using the lens for.

May be i should look into single person full body portraiture for inspiration, so i can use the lens to it's fullest.:oops:


Kevin life= learning
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ckckevin
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Jul 06, 2010 03:37 |  #8

Tim Park wrote in post #10484470 (external link)
I purchased my 24LII primarily because I wanted the shallow dof capabilities in a wide angle lens for event coverage. Of course, a wide angle won't give you the creamy bokeh of a telephoto (unless you're really close), but I like the separation it gives while still preserving the environment. Here are a few examples...

Thanks, Tim! This is some good stuff, i like how you use the lens and be able to get 2-3 person in focus to emphasize them, yet you can still see the background. This is actually pretty inspiring, thanks!


Kevin life= learning
500D, Canon 10-22mm, Tamron 17-50mm 2.8, Canon 60 macro, Canon 85mm 1.8, Sigma 8mm 3.5, Sigma 30mm 1.4, Sigma 50-150mm 2.8, Kenko SP300 1.4x, efs extension tubes, 580EX, and lens that i don't like

  
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SkipD
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Jul 06, 2010 04:26 |  #9

Kevin, it seems like you need to understand perspective and how to control it. Perspective is controlled purely by the distance between the camera and the various elements of the scene including the various elements (nose, ear, etc.) of a portrait subject.

Please read our "sticky" tutorial titled Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance?. The "sticky" thread can be found at the top of the General Photography Talk forum.


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tkbslc
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Jul 06, 2010 10:24 |  #10

cheungupdt wrote in post #10484534 (external link)
I just thought 30mm is a little too "invasive" to use for portraiture (I guess i like head shot more rather than full body, and for some reason i've never develop a liking towards full body shots), so that's why i have such a hard time using 30mm for portraiture. And now most of the time, i use it at a distance capturing a certain scenery, or events. So that's why i'm mostly using it's wide aperture just for light.

"candids where I want to preserve the environment" That's the exactly what i'm using the lens for.

May be i should look into single person full body portraiture for inspiration, so i can use the lens to it's fullest.:oops:

Yeah, it is not the right lens for headshots or head and shoulder portraits, I agree. You'll end up about 2 feet from the subject. I normally use my 50-135mm zoom at about 100-135 for headshots.

I'm not sure why you have problems using the lens just for capturing more light. It is really good at that task. I would say I use mine more for that than for the shallow DOF tricks. If I really wanted to blur a background until it is unrecognizable, a longer lens is much more suited to the task. It's all about having the tools to get the look you want.


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tkbslc
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Jul 06, 2010 10:27 |  #11

Tim Park wrote in post #10484470 (external link)
I purchased my 24LII primarily because I wanted the shallow dof capabilities in a wide angle lens for event coverage. Of course, a wide angle won't give you the creamy bokeh of a telephoto (unless you're really close), but I like the separation it gives while still preserving the environment. Here are a few examples...

Those are excellent shots of thinner DOF on a true wide angle prime. Unfortunately the lens the OP is talking about is not nearly a wide angle as it is a crop-only 30mm lens. That's 48mm equiv, or a normal prime.

I do wish we had a fast wide lens for crop cams, though....


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Tim ­ Park
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Jul 06, 2010 14:59 |  #12

Thanks guys! Yeah, a true wide fast prime for 1.6x users would be nice. Although the 24 does give a nice 38mm fov on a 1.6x...but of course, it's not cheap!

Tim


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ckckevin
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Jul 06, 2010 17:15 |  #13

tkbslc wrote in post #10485902 (external link)
Those are excellent shots of thinner DOF on a true wide angle prime. Unfortunately the lens the OP is talking about is not nearly a wide angle as it is a crop-only 30mm lens. That's 48mm equiv, or a normal prime.

I do wish we had a fast wide lens for crop cams, though....

Actually, i'm speaking more of any wide angle primes that's wider than 30mm.


Kevin life= learning
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ckckevin
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Jul 06, 2010 17:32 |  #14

SkipD wrote in post #10484648 (external link)
Kevin, it seems like you need to understand perspective and how to control it. Perspective is controlled purely by the distance between the camera and the various elements of the scene including the various elements (nose, ear, etc.) of a portrait subject.

Please read our "sticky" tutorial titled Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance?. The "sticky" thread can be found at the top of the General Photography Talk forum.

Thanks, Skip, that's a great read. I do understand perspective, i do use my 30mm for different perspective shots, so using the 30mm lens is not a problem. But I guess i'm more of asking for inspiration for taking shots with the f/1.4 for things that is other than getting 2 stops more of light than my 17-50mm, I want to learn more of how to use my 30mm 1.4 to a fuller extend. Things like what Tim did, Tim's pictures have given me a lot of good inspiration there.


Kevin life= learning
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ckckevin
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Jul 06, 2010 17:44 |  #15

tkbslc wrote in post #10485892 (external link)
Yeah, it is not the right lens for headshots or head and shoulder portraits, I agree. You'll end up about 2 feet from the subject. I normally use my 50-135mm zoom at about 100-135 for headshots.

I'm not sure why you have problems using the lens just for capturing more light. It is really good at that task. I would say I use mine more for that than for the shallow DOF tricks. If I really wanted to blur a background until it is unrecognizable, a longer lens is much more suited to the task. It's all about having the tools to get the look you want.

Thanks, Tkbslc, there is absolutely no problem to use the lens just for more light, but i just feel i can do more with my 30mm. I understand a long lens is the way to go for head shots or creamy background.

I guess what i'm trying to do here is like asking you guys for some inspiration (like reading a user manual to get all the possible functionality of a product). And then i would know the lens capability, so in the future, when i have the need, then i would know which tool to grab to get the job done better.


Kevin life= learning
500D, Canon 10-22mm, Tamron 17-50mm 2.8, Canon 60 macro, Canon 85mm 1.8, Sigma 8mm 3.5, Sigma 30mm 1.4, Sigma 50-150mm 2.8, Kenko SP300 1.4x, efs extension tubes, 580EX, and lens that i don't like

  
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