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FORUMS News & Rumors Camera Rumors and Predictions 
Thread started 15 Jul 2010 (Thursday) 12:15
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POLL: "Would you buy a Canon mirrorless compact?"
Yes, but only if it was a Full Frame or APS-H
49
25.9%
Yes, but only if it was APS-C
16
8.5%
Yes, any of the above, as long as it was Canon
71
37.6%
No, because I already own a system (m43, NEX, NX10, Leica) and wouldn't do a Canon
6
3.2%
No, I have no interest in the concept
47
24.9%

189 voters, 189 votes given (1 choice only choices can be voted per member)). VOTING IS FOR MEMBERS ONLY.
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Would you go for a Canon mirrorless system?

 
TweakMDS
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Jul 20, 2010 10:18 |  #31

MintMark wrote in post #10569580 (external link)
Can you elaborate on the focus issues please? Is there something that is particularly a problem with long lenses?

Afaik, the advantage of the current DSLR (pentaprism) system is that it's able to detect whether or not something is in focus, and more importantly, if something is not in focus, which way to start moving the focus.
The contrast detect system is only able to find focus by alternating it and seeing it it's sharper than the previous step.


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toxic
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Jul 20, 2010 10:57 |  #32

^ To answer the question more precisely, AF is slower because it's contrast-detect rather than phase-detect, not anything to do with long vs short lenses. Both depend on contrast to focus, but phase-detect is much faster...however, it requires a mirror. So either you make a not-quite-as-small camera with a pellicle AF mirror in front of the sensor, or you make the smallest camera possible without any mirrors.

I would buy one if it's APS-C or larger and it has a VF, clip-on or otherwise. It would replace my SLR if it has a 35mm sensor. An AF version of the RF viewfinder would be nice, but I'm not sure that's possible.




  
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hsmoscout
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Jul 20, 2010 11:51 |  #33

So Canon's mirrorless competitor will be...mirrorful? If Canon can make a mirrorless sized camera that has a mirror like CR says they might, I think a lot of people would buy it.


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k8et
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Jul 20, 2010 12:21 |  #34

Yes. I'm looking for a compact camera that's smaller for camping and everyday snaps. I'm looking at the Olympus one, and liking it a lot. If canon came out with one, I'd compare the two and canon would have a slight lead just because it would use the same software/icons and possibly even more things as my dSLR.

I'm also looking to have it do video though, so that would be my other big selling point.


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sth_
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Jul 20, 2010 12:44 |  #35

Concerning AF speed: I was very with the speed of Panasonic's contrast-based system. It's much faster than Canon's LiveView focusing. I guess it's about as fast as normal focusing using a non-USM lens on a Canon body. It also allows continous AF in movie mode (if you want it), which works very well.

Servo tracking is not that great, although far better than I expected. What makes it unusable for sports photography is not the servo tracking but the viewfinder blackout (if you can call it like that, it actually freezes the last LiveView image).


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MintMark
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Jul 21, 2010 09:01 |  #36

toxic wrote in post #10570794 (external link)
^ To answer the question more precisely, AF is slower because it's contrast-detect rather than phase-detect, not anything to do with long vs short lenses. Both depend on contrast to focus, but phase-detect is much faster...however, it requires a mirror. So either you make a not-quite-as-small camera with a pellicle AF mirror in front of the sensor, or you make the smallest camera possible without any mirrors.

I would buy one if it's APS-C or larger and it has a VF, clip-on or otherwise. It would replace my SLR if it has a 35mm sensor. An AF version of the RF viewfinder would be nice, but I'm not sure that's possible.

Thank you toxic, that's what I was trying to get at. I understand phase detect vs contrast, but I wasn't aware of any long lens vs short lens issues. I wondered whether it might be an issue with the amount of glass that needed moving... or the difference in depth of field at different focal lengths (making focus easier or harder to determine).

Anyway, what if it had a mirror just for AF and a separate electronic viewfinder? Does that mean it wouldn't need a prism and they could fit it into a more rectangular shaped body?


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hpulley
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Jul 21, 2010 10:22 |  #37

Yep, quite possible I'd say to use a partial mirror just for AF but EVF for viewing.


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elfenix
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Jul 21, 2010 16:25 |  #38

toxic wrote in post #10570794 (external link)
^ To answer the question more precisely, AF is slower because it's contrast-detect rather than phase-detect, not anything to do with long vs short lenses. Both depend on contrast to focus, but phase-detect is much faster...however, it requires a mirror. So either you make a not-quite-as-small camera with a pellicle AF mirror in front of the sensor, or you make the smallest camera possible without any mirrors.

I would buy one if it's APS-C or larger and it has a VF, clip-on or otherwise. It would replace my SLR if it has a 35mm sensor. An AF version of the RF viewfinder would be nice, but I'm not sure that's possible.

i was wondering what was stopping a camera company from putting a phase detect array in an image sensor, and apparently fuji went ahead and did it with their new compact. so it's not impossible. though iirc a phase detect system requires a prism to capture light from the opposite sides of the lens and compare (thereby creating a rangefinder - surprise, your SLR is a rangefinder!).

though phase detect with such a small aperture as on a compact camera is not going to be very accurate. rangefinder base for a phase detect system is equal to the absolute aperture or diameter of the lens.




  
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EL_PIC
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Jul 22, 2010 10:07 |  #39
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elfenix wrote in post #10579013 (external link)
... surprise, your SLR is a rangefinder! ...

No real surprise on this or that photo and camera systems are economic driven.
Technology is only an excuse for selling and buying more cameras, software, and more lenses.
It will go from back to future and forward to past as long as people pay.
The camera manufactures learned this moving slightly from 8 mm to Super 8, IS 2, APS C half frames, and 20% more pixels
Soon they move 20% less pixels.
Electro Focus is coming but not till you buy all new lenes and then cameras and then ....


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tom ­ s
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Jul 25, 2010 10:46 |  #40

no no and nooooooo


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Lightstream
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Jul 26, 2010 09:08 |  #41

There is actually an advantage for Canon here. Their EF-S has already got a shorter backfocus/registration distance, which other camera manufacturers with mirrored APC or full frame systems did not take advantage of. That's why EF-S glass has bits and pieces that stick into the mirror box, making it physically impossible to mount on FF cameras like the 5D even if you remove the baffle (been there, done it, smacked a 60 macro on my 5D's mirror). But they could leverage that for their newer smaller cameras.

I'd buy it as long as it took EF/EF-S glass. If it can be adaptered to do so, then by all means. ie. a hypothetical EF-M (micro) mount with EF/EF-S adapters and its own EF-M glass. I'd consider it even if it was a 2.0x or 1.8x crop. So happens, EF-S 15-85 IS USM with a 1.8x imager would fit nicely into my preferred zoom range, being 27-153. And the 10-22 would still be 18-40, still plenty wide.

The nice thing about such a system, if it was compatible with existing EF gear, would mean choice. I could pack a smaller body as a secondary/backup camera and still retain choice of lens. Then when you want to break out the big telephotos you can always take another EOS body.... maybe a 7D or 5D with the Brick Grip (no screws needed, just duct tape a big cement brick to the bottom of the camera. :p)




  
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Tommydigi
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Jul 26, 2010 09:19 |  #42

Yes I would but a lot really depends on how its designed. I had my sights set on the Sony NEX but I would prefer the controls of the G11 with a 4/3 or APS-C sensor. So something of a cross between these 2 would be ideal for me. If nothing comes out by fall I am jumping on a T2i, not really tiny but an amazing camera and much smaller and lighter then a 5d2.


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Jul 26, 2010 09:23 |  #43

I voted No, wouldn't a mirrorless DSLR start to chew up the battery a whole lot more? And it wouldn't be called a DSLR anymore would it?


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treck_dialect
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Jul 26, 2010 23:04 |  #44

i voted yes just because it would be really handy. although i just realized, if they used the same lens mounts and i was able to use my current lenses, the size of the body wouldnt really matter as much.


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NeutronBoy
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Jul 29, 2010 06:21 |  #45

I would hope they keep the EF mounting system


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