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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 09 Aug 2010 (Monday) 16:37
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Should the Village Voice use my photo for free?

 
MJPhotos24
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Aug 10, 2010 12:28 |  #31

Mike Jagendorf wrote in post #10694642 (external link)
I'm an aspiring pro. Maybe being able to put "published in the Village Voice"in my resume and letting them take the image without payment JUST THIS ONCE is worth it, since the paper is very well known in the New York City area?

Ha, this is the same mistake so many of us have made and guess what - it doesn't work that way! If your images can't speak for themselves without a list of who used them to have to go along with them, then the images aren't very good (and this one you posted is good).

I have publications I was stupid enough to submit to free back in the day, guess what has never and will never be put in my portfolio or even the list of who has used my stuff. You guessed it, anyone who has used it free because of my stupidity. A resume has who you WORKED for, not who has published your stuff one time, free of all things.


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breal101
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Aug 10, 2010 12:51 |  #32

Mike Jagendorf wrote in post #10694642 (external link)
I'm an aspiring pro. Maybe being able to put "published in the Village Voice"in my resume and letting them take the image without payment JUST THIS ONCE is worth it, since the paper is very well known in the New York City area?

I have a little different take on this. If this is the first time you've been published you will always remember that picture and where it was published. Everything that's been said about credit lines is true, they really are worthless. But I can remember my first picture ever published over 30 years ago, since then I've had thousands of pictures published in various forms and couldn't tell you the last one really.

The bottom line is don't let anyone talk you out of what you want to do.


"Try to go out empty and let your images fill you up." Jay Maisel

  
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BreitlingFan
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Aug 10, 2010 14:47 |  #33
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Dennis_Hammer wrote in post #10690054 (external link)
Tell them you want an ad for your photo business and you don't have the budget for it so one ad placed twice each on a Friday 4x6 inches. You'll see that their attitude will change to we can't do that for free then you get to say well neither than can I. Photo credit is useless and the more people give it away for free the less anyone will pay for it. Remember when you give something away you set it's value at what you got.

That's an outstanding idea.

People with "no budget" have bartered services for centuries...


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HappySnapper90
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Aug 10, 2010 16:07 |  #34

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #10695078 (external link)
Sorry but this totally degrades what is stock photography where I make a good amount of my living. By this logic I can go down to the car dealership and ask for a free car because hey, it's already on the lot.

This logic makes no sense at all.

No, your example does not hold up to my suggestions of photos taken by someone who was attending a parade for fun. That is so different than manufacturing a car. Ford is not making cars for fun and there is extreme cost on their behalf. Every news channel in town is always asking viewers to send videos and photos to them because they want people to supply them with news content for free and it seems that many people are willing to oblige.




  
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LBaldwin
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Aug 10, 2010 16:26 |  #35

KingLou wrote in post #10689886 (external link)
What's worth more to you? Having your photo out there, properly credited, to potentially 250k or more people........or having...nothing. I mean, you can ask them to pay you, but they already said they can't. So it appears the options are, you let them use it for free...or you don't let them use it. It's up to you either way, but do you think you stand to gain, or lose by letting them use it? That's the decision you have to make.

Sorry, but the only one of those 250,000 readers that care about the byline ---- is the photographer.

You can ask a million photographers and have a real hard time finding anyone who got another gig because a potential client saw their byline.

Bylines are a suckers bet. It is very easy to get them for free just about any rag will accept your free images in trade for a few printed letters.


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cdifoto
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Aug 10, 2010 17:05 |  #36

KingLou wrote in post #10689886 (external link)
What's worth more to you? Having your photo out there, properly credited, to potentially 250k or more people........or having...nothing. I mean, you can ask them to pay you, but they already said they can't. So it appears the options are, you let them use it for free...or you don't let them use it. It's up to you either way, but do you think you stand to gain, or lose by letting them use it? That's the decision you have to make.

Publications like VV LOVE people like you! ;)


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cdifoto
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Aug 10, 2010 17:20 |  #37

If you really want to be proud of a first, be proud of the first image you SOLD to a publication - no the first image you GAVE to a publication.

A lot of millionaires frame the first dollar they made. They don't frame the first free sample they gave out.


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imageswest
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Aug 10, 2010 17:44 |  #38

Mike Jagendorf wrote in post #10694642 (external link)
I'm an aspiring pro. Maybe being able to put "published in the Village Voice"in my resume and letting them take the image without payment JUST THIS ONCE is worth it, since the paper is very well known in the New York City area?

Well, it would certainly let other potential clients know that you work for free...


Cliff LeSergent
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domat
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Aug 10, 2010 17:46 |  #39

All this assumes you will get the chance to be published again. Maybe you will decide to give up photography. You can always frame your first published then your first paid published if you like.

Of course the downside is you allow publications like the VV to continue getting free images.

I would probably be torn on the issue if I was you but would probably let them do it. Remember even if they pay you it won't be much. low priced dinner for 2 at most.




  
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david69
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Aug 10, 2010 18:26 as a reply to  @ post 10690054 |  #40

I was just going to say, "no" (sort of chiming with others in the 'no' camp) and then got to:

Dennis_Hammer wrote:
Tell them you want an ad for your photo business and you don't have the budget for it so one ad placed twice each on a Friday 4x6 inches.

I've got to say, that is the answer :-).


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JEC
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Aug 10, 2010 18:54 |  #41

Dennis_Hammer wrote in post #10690054 (external link)
Tell them you want an ad for your photo business and you don't have the budget for it so one ad placed twice each on a Friday 4x6 inches. You'll see that their attitude will change to we can't do that for free then you get to say well neither than can I. Photo credit is useless and the more people give it away for free the less anyone will pay for it. Remember when you give something away you set it's value at what you got.

That's the best answer so far.
Skip past the tone of "I'm the only talented photographer you may ever meet and I can be real pain in the butt if I want to".

There are 50 more "unique and talented" photographers right behind you (newbies), and the publication staff simply has to look right over your shoulder to see them.
Use this chance to exchange your resources for theirs, and skip the desire for "credit". It's an ugly word, and in general, nobody cares who took the picture.

Ask for advertising in exhange, and develop a relationship with these people that can help you get the word out about your services.




  
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domat
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Aug 10, 2010 19:01 |  #42

He has already said he has nothing to advertise.




  
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Gentleman ­ Villain
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Aug 10, 2010 19:33 as a reply to  @ domat's post |  #43
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I wonder how many pages this thread will go? The only reason I bothered to post on the first page is because my best girlfriend from college worked for the Village Voice and was recently laid off.

Here's an interesting blog post about the current and future state of PJ: I believe we owe it to our children to tell them that the profession of ‘photojournalist’ no longer exists (external link)

The overall gist is that the old business model was basically build on an unholy alliance between advertisers and photojournalists. It made little sense to begin with and now the internet has pretty much destroyed it.




  
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Gentleman ­ Villain
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Aug 10, 2010 19:36 as a reply to  @ Gentleman Villain's post |  #44
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…it was an accident. There was a set of forces that made that possible. And they weren’t deep truths — the commercial success of newspapers and their linking of that to accountability journalism wasn’t a deep truth about reality. Best Buy was not willing to support the Baghdad bureau because Best Buy cared about news from Baghdad. They just didn’t have any other good choices.

http://www.niemanlab.o​rg …all-around-a-public-good/ (external link)




  
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primoz
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Aug 11, 2010 01:35 as a reply to  @ HappySnapper90's post |  #45

Ok I admit I might be missing something in all this but... Ford is not making cars for fun, and there's extreme cost on their behalf? $60k+ worth equipment we use for getting photos is what? Joke? As I said, I'm obviously missing something, or maybe I'm just one of those stupid ones, who owns agency and actually pay for our equipment, and on the end, who consider this as expense which we need to get back. But yes, I agree... this is something totally different, then cars, house, tv...:rolleyes:


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Should the Village Voice use my photo for free?
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