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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 17 Sep 2010 (Friday) 00:06
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sk82712
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Sep 18, 2010 04:01 |  #76

harcosparky wrote in post #10929381 (external link)
Ok for the record I have used Smoke, CS Gas, and White Phosphorous Grenades.

WP has nothing in common with a Smoke Grenade, trust me on that.

WP isn't something to fool around with either! :D

Ha, I know. It was a joke.


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Panda_stunter
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Sep 18, 2010 04:39 |  #77

garycoleman wrote in post #10926790 (external link)
that's why you need to have a concealed gun nowadays. after the criminal robs you, you pull it out and shoot him in the back while he is fleeing with your items.

that would be voluntary manslaughter. and can land you in jail for 15-20 years.

sorry to hear about your loss. ive been a victim of theft myself, my car was stolen, and one thing should be done to them when they are caught...be castrated. or at least pay the repercussions.

but look on the bright side, you are alive. aside from the trauma that may have been caused, I hope not though, you got yourself a 7D. keep on shooting and always shoot with someone.


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Panda_stunter
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Sep 18, 2010 04:41 |  #78

MG30D wrote in post #10928388 (external link)
Damn this sucks...sorry for the loss, but glad your ok. :(

First mistake....moved to L.A.

I'm not sure what you can do at this point...but if I were you I'd get insurance in the future (espically if your making money at your photography), and get a gun....then again I don't know what the laws are currently in CA concerning carrying a gun, with all do respect you unfortunately live in (for lack of a better term) a backwards state that seems to believe the average person should not be allowed to carry a gun, but the criminals should be armed. :rolleyes:

In California, you cant get CCW unless its necessary for the job. you can have it at your home (kingdom rule), but cant carry it concealed. you can, but if youre caught, its jail time.


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dzaneh
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Sep 18, 2010 05:04 |  #79

garycoleman wrote in post #10926790 (external link)
that's why you need to have a concealed gun nowadays. after the criminal robs you, you pull it out and shoot him in the back while he is fleeing with your items.

shooting someone in the back as they are fleeing will probably land you in jail !!
best not to give advice to someone like that!


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darosk
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Sep 18, 2010 05:11 |  #80

harcosparky wrote in post #10928262 (external link)
Yell out to him " hey you forgot my GOLD WATCH! " As he turns to come back and get the watch, then you shoot him.

Words to live by.


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Syntaxxor
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Sep 18, 2010 05:18 |  #81

Panda_stunter wrote in post #10931159 (external link)
that would be voluntary manslaughter. and can land you in jail for 15-20 years.

Yeah, cause the cops will believe the mugger that threatened your life; over you. (No, they won't).

Honestly the only thing you need to worry about when shooting someone in this situation is if their family tries to sue you for wrongful death.

Shooting a mugger in back landing you in jail? I doubt it; especially not here in Texas. I have my CHL, and I always carry my .380 when I go out to parks and...well everywhere. Why? Cause I can; and ya just never know.


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thebishopp
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Sep 18, 2010 05:34 |  #82

arentol wrote in post #10927607 (external link)
http://www.keltecweapo​ns.com/our-guns/pistols/p-32/ (external link)

Will run you about $275 loaded. Weighs about 10oz loaded. Fits in any pocket and can be carried very safely loaded and with one in the chamber.

Guy asks for your wallet, reach into your pocket and pull this out instead.

good little piece, in fact I bought one for my gf to carry. as an "OS" gun (oh sh@t) last resort piece it should serve it's purpose loaded with some decent .380 hollow points.

in the OP's case I'm glad he got out of the situation without getting hurt. The sad fact is that the next guy/gal down the road might not be so lucky. a lot of times these guys get more and more violent. it doesn't take much for the criminal who has already displayed a violent tendency to escalate that violence with each victim. If he isn't caught by the police or someone doesn't stop him permanently, I am willing to bet money he will kill someone.

by the way, for those people who said the op "won". it wasn't a "win". it was a loss with minimal casualties (none in this case). that is not the same as a "win".


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CyberPet
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Sep 18, 2010 10:09 |  #83

Am I the only one who's disturbed about all this "gun talk" in a photography forum? The term "shoot" should only be in regards of photography.

Thanks.


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kinghong1970
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Sep 18, 2010 10:35 |  #84

thebishopp wrote in post #10931257 (external link)
good little piece, in fact I bought one for my gf to carry. as an "OS" gun (oh sh@t) last resort piece it should serve it's purpose loaded with some decent .380 hollow points.

in the OP's case I'm glad he got out of the situation without getting hurt. The sad fact is that the next guy/gal down the road might not be so lucky. a lot of times these guys get more and more violent. it doesn't take much for the criminal who has already displayed a violent tendency to escalate that violence with each victim. If he isn't caught by the police or someone doesn't stop him permanently, I am willing to bet money he will kill someone.

by the way, for those people who said the op "won". it wasn't a "win". it was a loss with minimal casualties (none in this case). that is not the same as a "win".

you may be right on the first part... but then again, you know there will be lawyers that will try to make a case out of nothing...


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lonescout
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Sep 18, 2010 10:50 |  #85

CyberPet wrote in post #10931883 (external link)
Am I the only one who's disturbed about all this "gun talk" in a photography forum? The term "shoot" should only be in regards of photography.

Thanks.

Nope.

This is a lesson in appropriate insurance cover, not personal defence (defense)!

The scenario as has been described by the OP would most likely not have ended well for the OP. Blade at his throat before he realised what was happening............. Unless the gung ho types promoting a firearm solution to this situation have actually in real life done just that, then its's just a Hollywood solution.

100% of personal defence (defense) is remaining alive after an encounter. The OP achieved this. Result.

OP sorry for the loss of your kit, that really sucks. Glad you are able to 'vent' about it :D.


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Sep 18, 2010 10:57 |  #86

123


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Ale_50d
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Sep 18, 2010 11:28 |  #87

Sorry to hear that man...

I guess that, if you need to carry a gun in the city where you live to be safe, you are living on the wrong city :(


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JonSC
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Sep 18, 2010 12:30 |  #88

I'm really sorry to hear about you loss, but the bright side is you are okay and that is all that should matter!



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brody98
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Sep 18, 2010 13:59 |  #89

State farm, personal articles policy = $80 a year 100% replacement cost. Ive had it since day one and always glad I have it. Sorry for your loss that really sucks. Ive had that look like someone was thinking about grabbing it and running when they see that "big white lens" I'll bust it over their head before I give it away though :) Glad your ok.


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thebishopp
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Sep 18, 2010 14:25 |  #90

lonescout wrote in post #10932043 (external link)
Nope.

This is a lesson in appropriate insurance cover, not personal defence (defense)!

The scenario as has been described by the OP would most likely not have ended well for the OP. Blade at his throat before he realised what was happening............. Unless the gung ho types promoting a firearm solution to this situation have actually in real life done just that, then its's just a Hollywood solution.

100% of personal defence (defense) is remaining alive after an encounter. The OP achieved this. Result.

OP sorry for the loss of your kit, that really sucks. Glad you are able to 'vent' about it :D.

Well I am both ex-military and ex-city cop. I've taken plenty of reports from "victims" and investigated/arrested my fair share of criminals. I have a working and practical knowledge of real world cases. I also happen to come from a family of police officers and so have both my own as well as a history of "real world" knowledge. I am also a wing chun instructor (as well as a certified ASP instructor). Note that the only reasons I list my "credentials" is that it seems you will not acknowledge a valid point without someone having "real life" experience.

Have I been in dangerous situations, yes. These include having weapons drawn on me, people trying to run me over in cars, creeping through places looking for "bad guys", having them pop out from behind things (in one case in particular a tree) and many others. Have I always been tactically aware, no.
Which also means I have been LUCKY myself (that tree incident to be precise) and I can assure you, from personal experience, that you do not want to rely on luck.

Now my advocation of a firearm is not "gung ho". Being prepared isn't just about having a weapon but also in knowing how and when to use it. This encompasses quite a bit and is not limited to but includes things like situational awareness, hand to hand defense, as well as when (or when not to) and how (as well as ability) to deploy one's chosen weapon.

A knowledge of one's particular state's law is also important. Some states are quite liberal in their use of force policies when one is in fear for one's life, or the life of another, or even just serious physical injury.

Now in the OP's case he wasn't prepared for anything. He had no "defense". He was just out right LUCKY. That is all, he is not to be commended for anything other than that. Luck, blind luck. If the guy had been just a bit more erratic, or perhaps decided a dead man makes a poor witness, then the OP would be dead. No amount of "appropriate insurance" would have helped him. At least not until they have some kind of medical procedure that will bring him back from the dead and he needs the insurance to pay for it.

Let's be blunt. His life was totally in the hands and at the mercy of the person who accosted him. He had no power at all in the situation. His only recourse (due to many factors, one of which could have been the lack of a weapon and knowledge of how/when/conviction to use it) was to totally roll over and give in to his assailant. He put his life in the criminals hands and got lucky. You could say he chose "life" by handing over the gear... wrong. He had no choice. The criminal had the power to choose and the criminal gave him the choice as he was the only one in this situation that had any real "power". There was only going to be one outcome in the OPs situation. The criminal was going to take whatever he wanted and that was that. In this case the criminal was gracious enough not to kill his victim. The OP "achieved" nothing. He was "given" his life by the person who had the power and ability to take it. Period. That is not "defense".

For you females who may not like the talk about "weapons" or "guns" or think just handing over your "gear or money" and you will be ok... this could easily entail more than just these material items (just in case you aren't clear... RAPE)- of course the same could happen for a guy, but it isn't as likely.

Now Why are we talking about this on a photo forum? Well that's simple. The OP was robbed. He posted his experience and is getting advice on how to prevent it from happening in the future and I might add that having good insurance probably won't save his life (did I mention how he survived only by being lucky?). I will of course concede that having good insurance may help get his gear back should it happen again and he is not killed. Of course good insurance can also be handy in paying for his funeral expenses (less of a financial burden on his family).

To the OP. What's done is done. You got lucky, plain and simple. You didn't "live" because you handed over your stuff. You "lived" because the criminal decided not to kill you. Realize that. Now, there were many different ways to handle future situations. You will need to be more aware of your surroundings and the areas you decide to go for one. At the very least you should not be so oblivious that someone can come up behind you and put a box cutter to your throat. IF you choose to obtain a weapon as well as legally carry it, then you also need to train with that weapon. Become proficient, not just in hitting a paper target, but also drawing it from various locations you conceal it on your person or in your bag. This is actually what a lot of people neglect. What good is being able to shoot the wing off a fly if you can't get your weapon out in the first place. Consider decent CQC schools and techniques. Be aware that mindset is one of the most important factors in any encounter. These are just some things suggestions that may help you on your way and there is much more (but I'm not running a class here so if you want to learn then find someone to teach you).

Now as for the fellow from Switzerland (I won't even get into that)... who thinks you are in the wrong city if you need a gun to be safe. You must be joking. Unless you live in a city or country with NO CRIME WHATSOEVER then you are at risk. If you haven't been the victim of the crime there are only a couple reasons. You are either LUCKY or you are prepared (or both for even the prepared can become victims).

On a side note you should know that, at least in the US, police officers are not legally obligated to protect you as an individual. There have been more than 10 supreme and state supreme court cases which confirmed this. The most recent one being in 2005.


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