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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Weddings & Other Family Events Talk 
Thread started 10 Sep 2010 (Friday) 23:05
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first wedding offer.. go for it?

 
Axton
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Sep 28, 2010 19:50 |  #16

zagiace wrote in post #10996790 (external link)
why not use a flash for the church?
when they are moving up and down the aisle.

As stated above, (sorry, a lot of info in my last post!), I could use 580EX on TTL but although church says it's alright, they kind of frowned on it and the B&G said "just don't blind us" so I'd like to not use flash at all.

I suppose with a diffuser I could make it not so bad?


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Jimconnerphoto
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Sep 28, 2010 20:37 |  #17

I would use it if they let you. Very few churches limit flash during the processional and recessional. I put the camera on the tripod during the ceremony.

If you simply must use ambient I guess you can underexpose a half stop to get a faster shutter. But i imagine your noise levels will be a little high.

If you are already at 1600, wide open and you still get movement you will have to either bump the ISO, under expose, get faster glass or add light. IMO adding light is the best option. It will also be tough to get your subjects in focus wide open.

I would opt for ISO800 1/30th sec at 4.5 personally. that way you will still pick up some ambient and the flash should stop the action of your subject unless they are booking down the aisle. (it happens)


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egordon99
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Sep 28, 2010 20:39 as a reply to  @ Jimconnerphoto's post |  #18

HOW were you autofocusing? (AI-Servo, Single-shot, which AF point?)

The first shot, the focus is clearly on one of the pews, and the subject is out-of-focus. This is not motion blur. You need to make sure you get your subject in focus, especially at such wide apertures.




  
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egordon99
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Sep 28, 2010 20:40 as a reply to  @ post 10996790 |  #19

Your off-camera flash stuff looks good though!




  
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caught14
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Sep 29, 2010 14:07 as a reply to  @ egordon99's post |  #20

I was thinking the exact same thing that egordon99 said. For the bride walking down the aisle shots, you'll want to use AI Servo for your autofocusing mode and the center point for focus as it will be the most accurate.

Kudos for taking the time to go early and practice, that should help you on the wedding day.


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Axton
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Sep 29, 2010 17:48 as a reply to  @ caught14's post |  #21

I was using single shot,center AF point (I ALWAYS shoot this way) and I cannot believe my focus point was that far off as I always go for the eyes with wide apertures..
Anyway, it seems your assessment is correct. AI-Servo I did not consider until you mentioned it. It makes a lot of sense as their distance will constantly be changing.

I am going to use my 580EX for the aisle shots but have a question:

In regards to zagiace's recommendation of ISO800 1/30th sec at 4.5, (camera in Manual & Flash in ETTL), is this better/easier than shooting Av mode? ( Av mode is my home base unless I'm in M w/OCF)

Also- I'm a big flash-bouncer and obviously I won't be bouncing here... So should I angle up a little & use the slide out catch-light card? stofen?


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Jimconnerphoto
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Sep 29, 2010 18:41 |  #22

Axton wrote in post #11003349 (external link)
I was using single shot,center AF point (I ALWAYS shoot this way) and I cannot believe my focus point was that far off as I always go for the eyes with wide apertures..
Anyway, it seems your assessment is correct. AI-Servo I did not consider until you mentioned it. It makes a lot of sense as their distance will constantly be changing.

I am going to use my 580EX for the aisle shots but have a question:

In regards to zagiace's recommendation of ISO800 1/30th sec at 4.5, (camera in Manual & Flash in ETTL), is this better/easier than shooting Av mode? ( Av mode is my home base unless I'm in M w/OCF)

Also- I'm a big flash-bouncer and obviously I won't be bouncing here... So should I angle up a little & use the slide out catch-light card? stofen?

I think AV is going to be easier and Manual can be better. It sorta depends on you. I personally think I am smarter then my camera (sometimes) and know better what settings I want.

A stofen or little pop up card is not going to do much. you can use a modifier to soften the light but that will also take some of your power of course. there are a ton to choose from but basically anything that increases the size of your source light is going to soften the light. Often times it is barely noticeable. There are many factors with how successful they work. Your subject distance is going to be one of them. You are not likely going to be able to get that light very close.


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howzitboy
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Sep 30, 2010 14:05 |  #23

Axton wrote in post #10996915 (external link)
As stated above, (sorry, a lot of info in my last post!), I could use 580EX on TTL but although church says it's alright, they kind of frowned on it and the B&G said "just don't blind us" so I'd like to not use flash at all.

use your flash for the wedding. all the guest will be popping off flashes with their p&s cameras so u might as well join them.

and when the couple are walking down if u try focus on them and shoot, u will probably focus where they were at that moment and when they moved , they will be OOF (ie your first shot, look at the pew behind her). So, the way i do it is prefocus on a spot in front of her and when she reaches there, fire away. Then my next few shots will be trying to follow her down the isle. this way u will get at least one shot u can use.


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Axton
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Sep 30, 2010 16:44 |  #24

howzitboy wrote in post #11009104 (external link)
use your flash for the wedding. all the guest will be popping off flashes with their p&s cameras so u might as well join them.

and when the couple are walking down if u try focus on them and shoot, u will probably focus where they were at that moment and when they moved , they will be OOF (ie your first shot, look at the pew behind her). So, the way i do it is prefocus on a spot in front of her and when she reaches there, fire away. Then my next few shots will be trying to follow her down the isle. this way u will get at least one shot u can use.

Sounds like good advice... Do you think AI-Servo would be prudent?
Also- I always use center focus point, I'm worried about focusing on face and then recomposing at these wide aperatures....

Right now I'm planning on being at the front row shooting down the aisle with the 70-200 2.8 and un-zoom as they approach.. I can get a shot of the Groom watching her from there as well.
After that, I'll be off to the side to get something quick and then to the back, still using the 70-200 to get the kiss, ring, etc. and the walk back down.
Sound like a decent plan?


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ShotByTom
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Sep 30, 2010 17:59 |  #25

Your test shots don't look bad, as far as exposure. There's definately something going on with the focus though.

Ai Servo works well when they are walking down the aisles, and possibly for the reception.

Weddings require different equipment than even portrait photography. I personally love the 7D because of the built in OCF controls. But, you have a 580, so you can use that as the master and use optical triggers, very cheap on ebay...to trigger your Vivitar flashes during the reception, and for the posed formals, that should give you plenty of light.

I am moving to the 17-55 & 24-105 on my my 7D for weddings. The 24-105 is an excellent portrait lens. 70-200 is also a fantastic lens, but it's a bit long for weddings on a crop camera. Great for long shots from the back of the church, but that's about it. I ended up selling mine and getting a 24-70. When I book a large church I just rent a 70-200 IS.

It looks like you will be fine for the formal portraits, you have some nice shots on your website. The hard part will be getting good shots during the ceremony. You really have no option but to add light.

The main thing is just don't panic and get the idea in your head that you can fix mistakes in photoshop...you'll end up spending WEEKS editing! Take your time and do what you can to get the shots right in-camera.

Good luck, and make sure you post some pictures!


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ShotByTom
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Sep 30, 2010 18:00 |  #26

Axton wrote in post #11010010 (external link)
Sounds like good advice... Do you think AI-Servo would be prudent?
Also- I always use center focus point, I'm worried about focusing on face and then recomposing at these wide aperatures....

Right now I'm planning on being at the front row shooting down the aisle with the 70-200 2.8 and un-zoom as they approach.. I can get a shot of the Groom watching her from there as well.
After that, I'll be off to the side to get something quick and then to the back, still using the 70-200 to get the kiss, ring, etc. and the walk back down.
Sound like a decent plan?

Just make sure that the 70-200 isn't going to be too long. You don't want to have to be switching cameras/lenses! I use ai servo for aisle shots. I used manual focus cameras for years and used to have to use pre-focus methods for sports and weddings. The big downfall to the modern lenses and cameras is the focus screen, I simply can't manual focus as well as these new cameras with the focus screens they have. The auto focus, especially in your T2i should be very good.


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Axton
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Oct 03, 2010 16:51 |  #27

ShotByTom wrote in post #11010409 (external link)
Just make sure that the 70-200 isn't going to be too long. You don't want to have to be switching cameras/lenses! I use ai servo for aisle shots. I used manual focus cameras for years and used to have to use pre-focus methods for sports and weddings. The big downfall to the modern lenses and cameras is the focus screen, I simply can't manual focus as well as these new cameras with the focus screens they have. The auto focus, especially in your T2i should be very good.

Yeah, that 70-200 is LONG... I rented it and have been playing with it for a couple days. Awesome lens!! Heavier than I imagined..

I honed in on what I feel will be good for the aisle shots: 580ex on manual 1/16, pointed straight up. Sigma 30mm, camera on M, ISO800, 2.0, 1/40. This seems to give a "not-too-flashy" but able to cut down on blur factor as they are walking. Here are a few samples:

1) Straight out of camera, just raw conversion and resize:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


2)Adjusted WB, crop & levels:
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


3) Adjust WB, crop & levels (settings same as above but this time 1/50 Tv)
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


Except for a few in the back, the lights were off. Some will be on on wedding day so I should be able to up my Tv or increase my Av to get as much ambient light as I can.

What do you think?

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dche5390
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Oct 04, 2010 20:42 |  #28

Push your ISO further. A noisy image is better than one that has blurring.

I don't like your chances of shooting so far back with the 2.8IS. Judging by the photo above, it is a fair distance between you and the couple.

WB looks like it will be a nightmare at the church. That overly warmness that I dread ...

Partial metering, is that spot metering? If not, try spot. Expose for the person only. That may give you better shutter speeds to work with.


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Axton
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Oct 29, 2010 21:36 as a reply to  @ dche5390's post |  #29

Update:

I've completed my first wedding, delivered the photos, and the client has given me a "Bravo" and is very pleased with the images. I can stop biting my nails.. until my next one.

Things I learned:

-Have at least SOMEONE with you to assist carrying your stuff around at the very least. Completely solo is a pita..

-Be the director! I shot most of this as if I was invisible and just capturing what was going on. Next time I will def. take more control with where, when and how I want people in front of my lens.

-If at all possible, go to the locations before hand to practice w/lighting, etc. This helped me A LOT with preparation/camera settings, etc.

-Do not move on to the next shot until you are SURE you got what you wanted. PP with a photo you could have easily shot twice for a better one is painful.

-If you need a few extra minutes setting up a shot with OCF for example, DO IT. I let myself get rushed through too many times when I could have taken more control.

-Do not do this without a contract. Even though this was a relaxed couple and very pleasant as well as a simple contract, we referenced the contract MULTIPLE times and it proved to be invaluable to avoid gray areas.

-Do your BEST to get it right IN CAMERA first. It is just too many photos to PP little things like a slight tilt, etc.

-I was never into this until this wedding, but SHOOT RAW if you are not 1000% sure that you will get it right in camera. RAW will save your life bringing some poor but necessary shots back to life.

One thing is for sure, I will produce better pictures at my next wedding and it will be more profitable...


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Mhappy
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Oct 30, 2010 11:55 |  #30

Axton wrote in post #11190971 (external link)
Update:

I've completed my first wedding, delivered the photos, and the client has given me a "Bravo" and is very pleased with the images. I can stop biting my nails.. until my next one.

Things I learned:

-Have at least SOMEONE with you to assist carrying your stuff around at the very least. Completely solo is a pita..

-Be the director! I shot most of this as if I was invisible and just capturing what was going on. Next time I will def. take more control with where, when and how I want people in front of my lens.

-If at all possible, go to the locations before hand to practice w/lighting, etc. This helped me A LOT with preparation/camera settings, etc.

-Do not move on to the next shot until you are SURE you got what you wanted. PP with a photo you could have easily shot twice for a better one is painful.

-If you need a few extra minutes setting up a shot with OCF for example, DO IT. I let myself get rushed through too many times when I could have taken more control.

-Do not do this without a contract. Even though this was a relaxed couple and very pleasant as well as a simple contract, we referenced the contract MULTIPLE times and it proved to be invaluable to avoid gray areas.

-Do your BEST to get it right IN CAMERA first. It is just too many photos to PP little things like a slight tilt, etc.

-I was never into this until this wedding, but SHOOT RAW if you are not 1000% sure that you will get it right in camera. RAW will save your life bringing some poor but necessary shots back to life.

One thing is for sure, I will produce better pictures at my next wedding and it will be more profitable...

Great Job Axton! Good to hear and great lessons learned!!!


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