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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 12 Sep 2010 (Sunday) 19:09
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Very disappointed with IQ from 24-105L

 
StudioAbe
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Oct 01, 2010 21:47 |  #346

FrostbytePhoto wrote in post #11017855 (external link)
Not when tripod mounted without the chance of camera shake. Frankly a longer shutter speed and f4 should make the image sharper from my experience. That is the essence of low light photography.

FrostbytePhoto wrote in post #11017685 (external link)
No, 40D does not have micro adjustment. But that photo was taken tripod mounted, and the focus point was set to the damn middle of the body of that lens. What is in focus? In front of the lens on the table. If canon said that the lens was going nuts and fixed it, then it leaves me with only one conclusion, its the 40D body.

Did you use 40D's live view function set to 10x magnification to determine if the focus performed accurately on the location you wanted to focus? Also, did you activate mirror lockup if you were not using the live view and more importantly, did you use the remote release? The remote release is the oft-neglected item to obtain a sharp image: even if the camera is mounted on the tripod, it is no use if one cannot press the shutter release button gently (by squeezing rather than pushing down); tripod alone does not guarantee sharp image, regardless of how sturdy it is. From what I gather, the test shot was made with a slow shutter speed and at near-wide open, making photographer's interaction more demanding - see previous sentence. One more note: most lenses do not perform their best wide-open, for 24-105, that's f/4. Use even slower shutter speed with self-timer and live view or mirror lock-up at between f/5.6 and f/8.

I own a 40D also and I know how it behaves, but your 40D and my 40D might be different: I cannot cite the source at this moment since I cannot recall where exactly it is, but in a nutshell, not all the cameras and lenses are created equal, even if they bear the same packaging and same label. The factory adjustment may vary from batch to batch and let's say that your 40D may have been shipped with -2 factory microadjust while mine at +2. Add to that the lenses that are shipped with tiny variations from batch to batch. It could be that the particular combination of your 24-105 to 40D is at odds with each other. Also, a zoom lens is an embodiment of a compromise - you may find that in order for the lens to perform adequately at certain focal length, the designers of the lens may have had to compromise the performance at other focal lengths. Perhaps having the camera calibrated with the lens at the focal length you use most often or find it most useful is the way to go.

On the other hand, as microadjust implies, it is a tiny thing. In real shooting, it is negligible in most cases and something that can be easily remedied. Countless SLR and DSLR owners have shot countless great images without microadjusting or even knowing about it, even if it might have made some amount of difference in their image quality.

Take more pictures, on impulse rather than thinking too much about the techniques and details. Also, take a few hundred, at least, in that fashion. If you get one good shot out of 24 or 36 (those numbers are based on frames per roll of film), then that's excellent. More often than not, you'll find that you'll take over 100 to get the one that you truly like. That ratio for me hasn't changed since the days of film camera despite all the advancement in technology. A tightly controlled test shot, while indicative of a lens's performance, is not everything that should be to determine that particular lens.

If you think 24-105 is confounding you, just you wait until you encounter a Sigma 50mm 1.4...



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MP4/8
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Oct 01, 2010 22:36 as a reply to  @ StudioAbe's post |  #347
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Frostbyte, what I'm thinking here....is to try and isolate the problem, and remove some variables.
I don't know if you can return the lens and ask for another copy.

I don't know if you can rent the same lens, and try a comparison.

It seems that something is not right. That latest test shot of a lens is confusing me. It seems like the worst of all the shots you've posted.

I'm feeling your pain though. I'd really like to see you find the source of what seems to be going on here.

Do you have a prime, or a couple of lenses that will enable you to make A/B/C comparisons with, at similar (same) focal lengths, and try swapping back and forth shooting the same subject on a tripod with, under the same conditions?

At one point, I had the 17-85, the 17-55 and compared them (extended to 50mm) to the 50mm f/1.8, at the same aperture, and stopped down, on a test chart I made up.
I also 3 of every 'shot' just to make sure, in case of any missed focus, or vibration, etc...

That told me everything I needed to know about what was 'the camera', and 'my method', and what was 'the lens'.

.


Canon T2i ** EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 ** EF 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS ** EF 50mm f/1.8 II ** EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro ** Lensbaby ** Canon S5 IS P/S camera
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." : Albert Einstein

  
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dnauer
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Oct 01, 2010 22:38 |  #348

FrostbytePhoto wrote in post #11017855 (external link)
Not when tripod mounted without the chance of camera shake. Frankly a longer shutter speed and f4 should make the image sharper from my experience. That is the essence of low light photography.

Frosty - I pointed out to you first that you might have had IS turned off when you did your first test. For this one, did you have it turned on? Here is a link with some information on the IS and tripod use.

http://www.dlcphotogra​phy.net/TripodAndIS.ht​m (external link)

I find this sentence interesting from Chuck Westfall from Canon USA:

"The IS mechanism operates by correcting shake. When there is no shake, or when the level of shake is below the threshold of the system's detection capability, use of the IS feature may actually *add* unwanted blur to the photograph, therefore you should shut it off in this situation"

Just something to consider also?




  
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FrostbytePhoto
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Oct 02, 2010 08:00 |  #349

Yes, I am aware that IS needs to be off on tripod mounted shots. 90% of my beginnings of photography was urban exploration and dark spaces. I used to shoot at F4-8 and use 30 second exposures. I have a wired off camera shutter release, but for that last picture I used the 2 second timer. I am going to try a few other things. First I am going to start with putting the 24-105 on my 10D and see if I get similar results. If I do, then I can assume it is the lens..... still. If it is not the same and i get better results, then I can safely assume it is the 40D body. Either way this should answer some questions.


Canon 40D/10D/Rebel XT | 24-105L|Sigma 50mm F2.8 Macro| 85mm F1.8| 18-55IS | 70-210 F4 | 28mm 1.8
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dnauer
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Oct 02, 2010 08:11 |  #350

Cool -- I do find this interesting so please keep your analysis coming --




  
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kitacanon
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Oct 02, 2010 08:14 |  #351

FrostbytePhoto wrote in post #11019651 (external link)
Yes, I am aware that IS needs to be off on tripod mounted shots. 90% of my beginnings of photography was urban exploration and dark spaces. I used to shoot at F4-8 and use 30 second exposures. I have a wired off camera shutter release, but for that last picture I used the 2 second timer. I am going to try a few other things. First I am going to start with putting the 24-105 on my 10D and see if I get similar results. If I do, then I can assume it is the lens..... still. If it is not the same and i get better results, then I can safely assume it is the 40D body. Either way this should answer some questions.

I'm curious what ISO you used to shoot 30 seconds @ F4...
I mean THAT'S dark
When you do test the lens again, use 5.6 rather than F4...you should see a lot less haze around contrasting edges (like the white numbers against the black barrel)


My Canon kit 450D/s90; Canon lenses 18-55 IS, 70-210/3.5-4.5....Nikon kit: D610; 28-105/3.5-4.5, 75-300/4.5-5.6 AF, 50/1.8D Nikkors, Tamron 80-210; MF Nikkors: 50/2K, 50/1.4 AI-S, 50/1.8 SeriesE, 60/2.8 Micro Nikkor (AF locked), 85mm/1.8K-AI, 105/2.5 AIS/P.C, 135/2.8K/Q.C, 180/2.8 ED, 200/4Q/AIS, 300/4.5H-AI, ++ Tamron 70-210/3.8-4, Vivitar/Kiron 28/2, ser.1 70-210/3.5, ser.1 28-90; Vivitar/Komine and Samyang 28/2.8; 35mm Nikon F/FM/FE2, Rebel 2K...HTC RE UWA camera

  
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ilumo
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Oct 02, 2010 08:40 |  #352

FrostbytePhoto wrote in post #11019651 (external link)
Yes, I am aware that IS needs to be off on tripod mounted shots. 90% of my beginnings of photography was urban exploration and dark spaces. I used to shoot at F4-8 and use 30 second exposures. I have a wired off camera shutter release, but for that last picture I used the 2 second timer. I am going to try a few other things. First I am going to start with putting the 24-105 on my 10D and see if I get similar results. If I do, then I can assume it is the lens..... still. If it is not the same and i get better results, then I can safely assume it is the 40D body. Either way this should answer some questions.

do you have access to any sharper lenses? some L primes? a 70-200 f4? see if they are any sharper. if not, then it's not your lens. my 24-105 is not as sharp as those, but it's still pretty impressively sharp.

maybe try better lighting too? use a flash and see what the results look like at iso 100. if it's not sharp even then, then its either your lens or body.


Body: 5D Mark IV
Glass: 50mm f/1.8 | 35mm f/1.4L USM | 17-40 f/4.0L USM | 24-70 f/2.8L II USM | 24-105 f/4.0L IS USM | 70-200 f/2.8L II IS USM | 85mm f/1.2L USM | 100mm f/2.8L IS USM
Accessories: 430 EX II, 600 EX, tripods, umbrellas, and other goodies.

  
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fourelements99
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Oct 02, 2010 08:46 |  #353

It appears that the image from 40D and 24-105 was underexposed. You can see the light coming from different direction on two images. The first one had more direct light and it made the internal light meter to get the job well done much easier. The second image had a large area in the shadow. It was very tricky to the internal light meter. I would add some flash light in the second image. It is not related to the gear but the trick of using light.

FrostbytePhoto wrote in post #10896707 (external link)
Here is one example. I tried my best to find pictures showing something similar. These pictures are as shot except "Auto Levels" in photoshop and resizing. First picture was taken with 10D and the canon 70-210 F4.0, the second was taken with the 40D and 24-105L.




  
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Yeoer
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Oct 02, 2010 10:22 |  #354

With the dog shot it wouldn't surprise me if you had actually focused when the dog was looking directly at you (probably on its nose), then it has turned its head putting it slightly OOF.


Canon 5D MarkII, 40D, 350D, EOS100, G10. Canon 24-105 F4 L, 85mm, 400mm F5.6, 50mm F1.8, 18-55mm, Sigma 10-20, 100-300mm, Canon 28-105 F3.5-F4.5, Kenko x1.4, Tubes and a bunch of Elinchrom Lights, flashes, reflectors and triggers.

  
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FrostbytePhoto
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Oct 02, 2010 10:54 |  #355

kitacanon wrote in post #11019692 (external link)
I'm curious what ISO you used to shoot 30 seconds @ F4...
I mean THAT'S dark
When you do test the lens again, use 5.6 rather than F4...you should see a lot less haze around contrasting edges (like the white numbers against the black barrel)

ISO 100. Dark Places.


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Canon 40D/10D/Rebel XT | 24-105L|Sigma 50mm F2.8 Macro| 85mm F1.8| 18-55IS | 70-210 F4 | 28mm 1.8
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FrostbytePhoto
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Oct 02, 2010 11:10 |  #356

Here is some more test shots. Did signs as I was told. All shots taken with center AF point selected. Hand held. ISO 125. IS ON!

24mm f4

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


45mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


70mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


105mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


24mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


32mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


70mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


105mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'



All other EXIF data should be attached if you want to download the images and view them at 100%. I'm not sure what to think.... some parts of these images look good... but still others remain not so good.

Canon 40D/10D/Rebel XT | 24-105L|Sigma 50mm F2.8 Macro| 85mm F1.8| 18-55IS | 70-210 F4 | 28mm 1.8
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FrostbytePhoto
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Oct 02, 2010 11:21 |  #357

And now for my marker test. The focus point was placed on the blue capped SHARPIE marker. the biggest and most obvious one of the group. I was trying to see how focus was shared between the markers at f4. Here are 3 shots and 3 different focal lengths.

24mm f4

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


67mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


105mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'

Canon 40D/10D/Rebel XT | 24-105L|Sigma 50mm F2.8 Macro| 85mm F1.8| 18-55IS | 70-210 F4 | 28mm 1.8
My Flickr (external link)

  
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HeaTransfer
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Oct 02, 2010 11:27 |  #358

Looks OK to me. Not sure what you're looking for?




  
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FrostbytePhoto
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Oct 02, 2010 11:29 |  #359

Now for similar shots from the 10D

24mm f4

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


65mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'


105mm f4
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/png'

Canon 40D/10D/Rebel XT | 24-105L|Sigma 50mm F2.8 Macro| 85mm F1.8| 18-55IS | 70-210 F4 | 28mm 1.8
My Flickr (external link)

  
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FrostbytePhoto
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Oct 02, 2010 11:30 |  #360

HeaTransfer wrote in post #11020408 (external link)
Looks OK to me. Not sure what you're looking for?

:rolleyes:


Canon 40D/10D/Rebel XT | 24-105L|Sigma 50mm F2.8 Macro| 85mm F1.8| 18-55IS | 70-210 F4 | 28mm 1.8
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Very disappointed with IQ from 24-105L
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