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Thread started 21 Oct 2010 (Thursday) 01:03
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BlackRapid FastenR-T1 WARNING!

 
Flytyer
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Oct 21, 2010 17:48 as a reply to  @ post 11140881 |  #31

Well I took mine apart and put the original one on and by gosh it does lock better. Not by much but enough so I am not going to use it. You are to be commended.

No it did not slid one bit with the BR one on it. It locked solid just the lever did not go quite as far.


jb

  
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JWright
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Oct 22, 2010 01:01 |  #32

Snydremark wrote in post #11140743 (external link)
Great images and info, thanks. Note the emphasis I added to your post.

The problem is that the new fastener has a 'spacer' on it that makes it so that the bolt doesn't seat in far enough into that counter-bore that you call out. Therefore, the nice, slick nickel plating is in direct contact with the tripod receiver and allows the plate to slide even after the lock lever(s) are snapped into place.

If you take a measurement of the bolt head on the original fastener of the 488RC2 plate there, you'll find that it's .196in (5mm) high. When the bolt is seated into that counter-bore, the distance from the surface of the plate to the top of the bolt head is .157in (4mm). This leaves, roughly, .028in (.711mm) of clearance between the bolt head and the tripod receiver if the overall depth of main the cutout is .182in (4.66mm)

On the T1 fastener, the bolt head is ALSO .196in (5mm) high, but there is an additional 'spacer' on top of that [Seen in the op image] that is another .039in (1mm) high and it's this spacer that slips into the counter-bore. This leaves the entire .196in (5mm) height of the bolt head sticking above the plane of the qr plate's surface.

If you then factor in that the main cutout under that plate is .182in (4.6mm), you have .014in (.355mm) of the T1 fastener extending past the cutout and giving "slip" to the whole unit when it's mounted. .014in (.355mm) is a very minute amount, but when compressing a nickel plated surface down onto another, hard surface like this it's enough to cause slippage. :(

Thanks for the assistance with this, btw! :)

Numbers here are reference, (mine) measured with a ruler and converted to decimal/mm manually; not measured with precision calipers and may not be EXACT. But they help illustrate the problem.


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I took the liberty of making some annotations on your image so I can be sure we are both talking about the same parts.

The parts of both screws that is .196 (5mm) I marked as 1 and 2, correct? The "spacer" is no. 3, and you're saying this fits into the counterbore. What is the diameter of the part at no. 3 and how does it compare to the through hole in the plate?

Does the shoulder at No. 3 fit into the through hole in the plate? If it doesn't, and I think it should, then that would cause the problem you are describing. It would also mean you might be a victim of "tolerance creep."

Every manufactured item is built to tolerances because it would be physically impossible to make each item exactly the same. Sometimes dimensions creep to the top of the tolerance and and sometimes to the bottom of the tolerance. If the hole in your plate slid toward the small end of the tolerance and the Black Rapid T1 crept toward the top of the tolerance, then it might not fit as it was intended. Neither part is defective in itself but together they don't work.

Does this make sense?

John

  
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Heath
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Oct 24, 2010 17:12 |  #33

I have three RC2 plates. On the bottom side, each one has a different letter. One is a B, C, and E.

The T1 and the E work fine. The T1 and the C do not work as well, but they do work. I have not tested the B version.

Would others with issues please check if there is a letter on the bottom of the plate and we can see if there is a pattern.

Thanks

Edit: I added a photo where you can see the B and the C on the plates. The third plate with the E is unfortunately covered.


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Heath
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BorisMD
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Oct 24, 2010 17:18 as a reply to  @ Heath's post |  #34

Mine is a "D" and is not compatible.

I ordered a new plate from Amazon, and will see what I get with order, and report back on compatibility.

Regards,

Boris


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Snydremark
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Oct 25, 2010 00:03 as a reply to  @ BorisMD's post |  #35

2 Ds and an H here; none of them work correctly.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
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Flytyer
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Oct 25, 2010 08:44 as a reply to  @ Snydremark's post |  #36

I don't know if those letters mean anything. Mine is an "F" and it works but the lever just does not move as far as with the OEM screw. The raised part of the T1 has no effect on mine but the thickness of the nut does. Without the washer the lever closes fully.


jb

  
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Jon
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Oct 25, 2010 09:24 |  #37

The letters are probably the "mold mark", which particular mold any specific plate was cast in. If there's a difference among them, I'd assume it's due to wear as much as anything else.


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GeneC
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Oct 25, 2010 12:06 |  #38

The FastenR-T1 is 1mm too deep and will not allow the RC2 QR plate to mount solidly on a tripod; my camera and lens went crashing to the ground tonight because of this. I've returned my RC2 plates to their original mounting d-ring and will be taking my T1s back to BR. vmad

Am I correct in saying that you released your grip on the cameras even though the RC2 plate wasn't seated in the clamp and the lever on the clamp was not fully closed? And it wouldn't stay balanced on top of the clamp for you. :lol::lol:

You're really not serious about your camera crashing to the ground for this reason_____are you?


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Snydremark
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Oct 25, 2010 15:50 |  #39

GeneC wrote in post #11161397 (external link)
You're really not serious about your camera crashing to the ground for this reason_____are you?

I'm saying that, in the dark, I mounted the camera to the tripod and heard the click from the lever snapping in to place. At which point I let go of the camera and it fell off of the tripod.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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JWright
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Oct 25, 2010 16:05 as a reply to  @ GeneC's post |  #40

I would still like to know what the diameter of the raised shoulder on the T1 is. I still think that's supposed to nest into the hole in the plate.

Everyone seems so quick to blame Black Rapid for the fit problems and not Manfrotto. Looking at all of the Manfrotto stuff I have kicking around the house, I'd say they have a tendency to play it a bit loose with their manufacturing standards. Black Rapid's fit and finish is certaily better than Manfrotto's.

If Manfrotto's plates are cast rather than forged or machined, then there is going to be more variation in the product, especially if there is no further work done on them after they come out of the mold.

Take a look at the clamp on the Manfrotto heads. It's obviously a casting with no machining except for where the lever attaches and the screw threads for the post. Now look at a similar Really Right Stuff plate and clamp. They are fine machinings that fit together well. That's why the Manfrotto plates are $12.00 and an equivalent RRS plate sells for $55.00...

And before anybody comments on whether or not I work for BR, I don't... I just don't like to see people blaming a company when the problems might not be their fault.


John

  
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GeneC
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Oct 25, 2010 17:25 |  #41

Snydremark wrote in post #11162834 (external link)
I'm saying that, in the dark, I mounted the camera to the tripod and heard the click from the lever snapping in to place. At which point I let go of the camera and it fell off of the tripod.

Obviously it's not a good idea to try things out in the dark when you can't see what's going on. It's an unfortunate accident that should not have happened. I used to have a Manfrotto BH with an RC2 clamp. The correct proceedure is to open the lever with your hand , set the gear in the clamp, the lever releases, you keep your hand on the lever and make sure it's in it's locked position before you let go of anything. You then engage the locking device device and you're safe. It appears you did everything wrong. It should have been crystal clear that something was wrong when the lever didn't close. Hindsight is always best right?:)


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nitehawk55
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Oct 25, 2010 18:17 |  #42

JWright wrote in post #11162937 (external link)
I would still like to know what the diameter of the raised shoulder on the T1 is. I still think that's supposed to nest into the hole in the plate.

Everyone seems so quick to blame Black Rapid for the fit problems and not Manfrotto. Looking at all of the Manfrotto stuff I have kicking around the house, I'd say they have a tendency to play it a bit loose with their manufacturing standards. Black Rapid's fit and finish is certaily better than Manfrotto's.

If Manfrotto's plates are cast rather than forged or machined, then there is going to be more variation in the product, especially if there is no further work done on them after they come out of the mold.

Take a look at the clamp on the Manfrotto heads. It's obviously a casting with no machining except for where the lever attaches and the screw threads for the post. Now look at a similar Really Right Stuff plate and clamp. They are fine machinings that fit together well. That's why the Manfrotto plates are $12.00 and an equivalent RRS plate sells for $55.00...

And before anybody comments on whether or not I work for BR, I don't... I just don't like to see people blaming a company when the problems might not be their fault.

Good points John , big difference in machined or cast parts as you mention and from what I've been reading here this looks to be a good possability of being the issue if different casts are used there is definately going to be variations . I'll have a look at my 2 Manfrotto plates when my R-T1 arrives .




  
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Jon
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Oct 25, 2010 18:20 |  #43

JWright wrote in post #11162937 (external link)
I would still like to know what the diameter of the raised shoulder on the T1 is. I still think that's supposed to nest into the hole in the plate.

Everyone seems so quick to blame Black Rapid for the fit problems and not Manfrotto. Looking at all of the Manfrotto stuff I have kicking around the house, I'd say they have a tendency to play it a bit loose with their manufacturing standards. Black Rapid's fit and finish is certaily better than Manfrotto's.

If Manfrotto's plates are cast rather than forged or machined, then there is going to be more variation in the product, especially if there is no further work done on them after they come out of the mold.

Take a look at the clamp on the Manfrotto heads. It's obviously a casting with no machining except for where the lever attaches and the screw threads for the post. Now look at a similar Really Right Stuff plate and clamp. They are fine machinings that fit together well. That's why the Manfrotto plates are $12.00 and an equivalent RRS plate sells for $55.00...

And before anybody comments on whether or not I work for BR, I don't... I just don't like to see people blaming a company when the problems might not be their fault.

And that being the case, shouldn't BR have taken a closer look at the RC2 plates out there before they made the piece to "fit" them?


Jon
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PAYPAL GIFT NO LONGER ALLOWED HERE

  
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phreeky
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Oct 25, 2010 18:34 |  #44

JWright wrote in post #11162937 (external link)
Everyone seems so quick to blame Black Rapid for the fit problems and not Manfrotto. Looking at all of the Manfrotto stuff I have kicking around the house, I'd say they have a tendency to play it a bit loose with their manufacturing standards. Black Rapid's fit and finish is certaily better than Manfrotto's.

And before anybody comments on whether or not I work for BR, I don't... I just don't like to see people blaming a company when the problems might not be their fault.

You can't be serious. Manfrotto plates work as delivered to customers. If a third party makes a product for it then it is THEIR responsibility to ensure it works as expected.




  
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JWright
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Oct 25, 2010 19:17 |  #45

phreeky wrote in post #11163748 (external link)
You can't be serious. Manfrotto plates work as delivered to customers. If a third party makes a product for it then it is THEIR responsibility to ensure it works as expected.

Ever wonder why the hole in a Manfrotto plate is over 3/8 of an inch in diameter, but the screw going through it is only a 1/4 inch? I think even Manfrotto realizes there are variations in the dimensions of their plates...


John

  
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