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Thread started 21 Oct 2010 (Thursday) 01:03
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BlackRapid FastenR-T1 WARNING!

 
Jon
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Oct 25, 2010 19:24 |  #46

No, Manfrotto also makes those plates available (external link) with 3/8" screws.


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JWright
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Oct 25, 2010 19:28 as a reply to  @ Jon's post |  #47

Oh... I wasn't aware of that. One plate, two applications. Smart engineering...


John

  
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JWright
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Oct 25, 2010 19:38 as a reply to  @ JWright's post |  #48

Jon wrote in post #11163672 (external link)
And that being the case, shouldn't BR have taken a closer look at the RC2 plates out there before they made the piece to "fit" them?

I would imagine Black Rapid used what they felt was a "representative sample" of plates to develop the T1. If they had wanted to ensure a perfect fit in all circumstances, they would have to have checked the T1 against every plate ever made by Manfrotto.

So far, I've heard of only two or three instances of poor fit, which strikes me as an extremely small number. Black Rapid will probably just refund those purchases and move on.


John

  
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BorisMD
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Oct 25, 2010 20:18 as a reply to  @ JWright's post |  #49

Hole diameter does not appear to be the issue.

On my "D" RC-2 plate, the hole is large enough in diameter for the shoulder of the T1 bolt to easily fit through. Even so, with or without the washer, the T1 sits slightly proud of the RC2 plate. It is worse with the washer.

Regards,

Boris


Boris Beckert
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RLMorgan
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Oct 25, 2010 20:48 |  #50

I am a big fan of my R-Strap. The strap itself is a great asset and almost works flawlessly. My only criticism is of the “bumper” (the clamp that stops the camera from sliding too far back on the strap) which simply refuses to stay put on my RS-5. I created a home remedy for that, but it’s fair to say I paid enough for the strap that I have a right for it to work. I digress. Even so…

BlackRapid producing a fastener that allows you to keep your RC-2 plate in place for tripod AND strap was innovative and much desired by many besides myself. I think it was very forward thinking of them and I applaud them for taking that on. It is clearly a technical challenge requiring precision to function within extremely close tolerances. In my long wait in anticipation of the FastenR-T1, I wondered how they would achieve the strength needed to ensure equipment would not be at risk while functioning in such a narrow space.

Unfortunately I have to agree with the criticism of BlackRapid for not validating the FastenR-T1would work flawlessly prior to releasing it. I have three plates (Manfrotto 200PL-14 RC2 Rapid Connect Mounting Plate), two stamped “F” and a new one stamped “D.” All experience the same flaw as described in previous posts, although the new plate required much more force to achieve a secure lock. I believe use/wear would lessen that over time.

So. Now what?

Option 1: Return the three FastenR-T1s I purchased at $18 a pop as a dissatisfied customer, and go back to the tedious and annoying swapping of plates and fasteners, or;

Option 2: Modify… what? The RC2 plates? The plate receivers at the risk of structurally weakening the original Manfrotto system (assuming modifications will work)? Both? Or;

Option 3: Live with it and be careful, hoping BlackRapid will offer a perfected second generation of the FastenR-T1s at some point in the future.

Sigh. For now I’m leaning toward option 3. I’ve deliberately stressed the plate seating after carefully ensuring the locking mechanism has fully engaged and secured the RC2 plate. I’m confident it won’t fail if I am diligent in locking it. So basically my laziness saves BlackRapid from returning my money for a product that increases risk of catastrophe.

For now. I will closely follow the outcomes of those who are not similarly afflicted with sloth. In the mean time I appear to simply be screwed by a not so simple screw.

Dick




  
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JWright
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Oct 25, 2010 21:03 |  #51

RLMorgan wrote in post #11164580 (external link)
I am a big fan of my R-Strap. The strap itself is a great asset and almost works flawlessly. My only criticism is of the “bumper” (the clamp that stops the camera from sliding too far back on the strap) which simply refuses to stay put on my RS-5. I created a home remedy for that, but it’s fair to say I paid enough for the strap that I have a right for it to work. I digress. Even so…

BlackRapid producing a fastener that allows you to keep your RC-2 plate in place for tripod AND strap was innovative and much desired by many besides myself. I think it was very forward thinking of them and I applaud them for taking that on. It is clearly a technical challenge requiring precision to function within extremely close tolerances. In my long wait in anticipation of the FastenR-T1, I wondered how they would achieve the strength needed to ensure equipment would not be at risk while functioning in such a narrow space.

Unfortunately I have to agree with the criticism of BlackRapid for not validating the FastenR-T1would work flawlessly prior to releasing it. I have three plates (Manfrotto 200PL-14 RC2 Rapid Connect Mounting Plate), two stamped “F” and a new one stamped “D.” All experience the same flaw as described in previous posts, although the new plate required much more force to achieve a secure lock. I believe use/wear would lessen that over time.

So. Now what?

Option 1: Return the three FastenR-T1s I purchased at $18 a pop as a dissatisfied customer, and go back to the tedious and annoying swapping of plates and fasteners, or;
Option 2: Modify… what? The RC2 plates? The plate receivers at the risk of structurally weakening the original Manfrotto system (assuming modifications will work)? Both? Or;
Option 3: Live with it and be careful, hoping BlackRapid will offer a perfected second generation of the FastenR-T1s at some point in the future.

Sigh. For now I’m leaning toward option 3. I’ve deliberately stressed the plate seating after carefully ensuring the locking mechanism has fully engaged and secured the RC2 plate. I’m confident it won’t fail if I am diligent in locking it. So basically my laziness saves BlackRapid from returning my money for a product that increases risk of catastrophe.

For now. I will closely follow the outcomes of those who are not similarly afflicted with sloth. In the mean time I appear to simply be screwed by a not so simple screw.

Dick

Have you tried swapping the T1s around through the three plates to see if you can get the best possible fit? It just might be you could make it work that way.


John

  
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nitehawk55
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Oct 25, 2010 21:37 as a reply to  @ JWright's post |  #52

I'm sure BR is looking into this and will have to resolve it judging by the numbers having issues . Fortunately I only ordered one (should arrive this week ) but if it doesn't work I would expect BR to replace it at some point when they redesign a new one .




  
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Snydremark
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Oct 25, 2010 22:29 |  #53

JWright wrote in post #11162937 (external link)
I would still like to know what the diameter of the raised shoulder on the T1 is. I still think that's supposed to nest into the hole in the plate.

...

John, I appreciate the questions you have had and the info you've provided for this. The diameter of that shoulder is approx .354in (9mm) as is the pass-through hole in the plate itself.

That being said, I do believe you're off the mark in trying to blame a problem with this setup on Manfrotto. Their plates, with THEIR connector pins, work flawlessly on THEIR hardware; this is a situation where a 3rd party (BR) piece causes a fit issue.

This would be like buying custom rims from a shop, for your truck and finding out that the spacing on the wheel lug holes is off, and blaming Ford.

Ruler is just for reference, no measurments implied:

Original part: Note that contact can be made on either side of the plate and there is a small space above the connector.

IMAGE: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1077/5116663068_926724e6a1_z_d.jpg

BR part: Note that contact can be made on only one side and the connector itself. It's this mismatch that allows the BR connector to lever the plate off of the tripod mount.
IMAGE: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1249/5116669244_3de2806cba_z_d.jpg

Since the plates I have are the same plates that their website specifies this part for, I should reasonably be able to expect there to not be a fit problem like this. The fact that I blindly trusted a new part without trying it out in a controlled environment is still on me, but this compatibility issue still shouldn't exist. I have 3 plates and this is an issue with all of them; I'm guessing that this just hasn't been widely reported to BR yet, as the initial batch of parts is likely still shipping.

All things going well, I will be showing this to one of their engineers tomorrow afternoon, so I'll hopefully have a better understanding of this after that.

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Flytyer
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Oct 26, 2010 00:12 as a reply to  @ Snydremark's post |  #54

Those Pics are exactly the problem I have too. Also I have a 234RC2 head for my Monopod and with the T1 installed it will not allow the lever to lock.


jb

  
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JWright
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Oct 26, 2010 15:49 as a reply to  @ Flytyer's post |  #55

Snydremark wrote in post #11165198 (external link)
John, I appreciate the questions you have had and the info you've provided for this. The diameter of that shoulder is approx .354in (9mm) as is the pass-through hole in the plate itself.

That being said, I do believe you're off the mark in trying to blame a problem with this setup on Manfrotto. Their plates, with THEIR connector pins, work flawlessly on THEIR hardware; this is a situation where a 3rd party (BR) piece causes a fit issue.

This would be like buying custom rims from a shop, for your truck and finding out that the spacing on the wheel lug holes is off, and blaming Ford.

Ruler is just for reference, no measurments implied:

Original part: Note that contact can be made on either side of the plate and there is a small space above the connector.
QUOTED IMAGE

BR part: Note that contact can be made on only one side and the connector itself. It's this mismatch that allows the BR connector to lever the plate off of the tripod mount.
QUOTED IMAGE

Since the plates I have are the same plates that their website specifies this part for, I should reasonably be able to expect there to not be a fit problem like this. The fact that I blindly trusted a new part without trying it out in a controlled environment is still on me, but this compatibility issue still shouldn't exist. I have 3 plates and this is an issue with all of them; I'm guessing that this just hasn't been widely reported to BR yet, as the initial batch of parts is likely still shipping.

All things going well, I will be showing this to one of their engineers tomorrow afternoon, so I'll hopefully have a better understanding of this after that.

I just did the same test with my two plates and the original Manfrotto screws and the amount of gap differs between the two.

Didn't you say the body of the Manfrotto screw and the BR screw are the same thickness? If that's the case, then the BR screw should fit. Have you tried leaving out the thin washer that came with the T1 and see if that makes a difference? I don't think the washer is absolutely necessary because two of my four plates don't even have it...


John

  
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nitehawk55
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Oct 26, 2010 16:52 as a reply to  @ JWright's post |  #56

Just got mine and checked it and it's a snug fit . Got a friend that has a machine shop and he says he can take a wee bit of material off the plate in the area the R-T1 seats to lower it using a milling machine .
I should have him bill BR for the work but he says no charge , it'll only take a few minutes .




  
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JWright
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Oct 26, 2010 18:02 |  #57

nitehawk55 wrote in post #11170103 (external link)
Just got mine and checked it and it's a snug fit . Got a friend that has a machine shop and he says he can take a wee bit of material off the plate on the milling machine .
I should have him bill BR for the work but he says no charge , it'll only take a few minutes .

Myself, I'd try to take just a little out of the counterbore that surrounds the hole. It appears as though there's enough material to prevent compromising the integrity of the plate.


John

  
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nitehawk55
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Oct 26, 2010 18:07 |  #58

JWright wrote in post #11170562 (external link)
Myself, I'd try to take just a little out of the counterbore that surrounds the hole. It appears as though there's enough material to prevent compromising the integrity of the plate.

That's what he'll be doing , I didn't mean the whole plate .
I reworded my post .




  
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JWright
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Oct 26, 2010 18:57 as a reply to  @ nitehawk55's post |  #59

That's what I figured...


John

  
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nitehawk55
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Oct 26, 2010 19:03 as a reply to  @ JWright's post |  #60

Taking a bit of material to lower the counterbore won't effect the plate strength at all as there is a fair bit of material there .




  
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BlackRapid FastenR-T1 WARNING!
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