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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 27 Oct 2010 (Wednesday) 12:59
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Break it down, please (Genesis 300b, Bees, Quadra)

 
111t
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Oct 28, 2010 16:18 |  #16

Titus213 wrote in post #11182972 (external link)
This comment causes some concern. I'm not sure this is a flash problem as I've not seen any unit, especially those mentioned, that are this far off. So I'm not sure a new set of lights will correct your problems.

Unless the comment was an exaggeration.

I agree. At least with the monolight setup they'll be forced to put the camera and speedlights in manual mode. She may start learning something.


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-Paul

WHAT TO DO IF YOU DON"T HAVE A LIGHT METER AND YOU STILL WANT TO MAKE INTELLIGENT EXPOSURE DECISIONS.

  
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randomlinh
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Oct 28, 2010 18:33 |  #17

mickeyjuice wrote in post #11182799 (external link)
It already says "Quadra" in the subject line.

her question seemed more generalized in the thread though. I read it through as if it were a general question, and thus a general response (though, i took the "for sake of this argument" as simplifying for this case as not to confuse the issue even more)




  
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blocks
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Oct 28, 2010 20:12 |  #18

Titus213 wrote in post #11182972 (external link)
This comment causes some concern. I'm not sure this is a flash problem as I've not seen any unit, especially those mentioned, that are this far off. So I'm not sure a new set of lights will correct your problems.

Unless the comment was an exaggeration.

Hi, could this be because the person is using it at full power and not letting the unit recharge? So a new set of lights could fix the problem even if it's more of a user created error than a mechanical fault.




  
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BadgirlIROC
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Oct 28, 2010 21:47 |  #19

I always shoot in manual and I always use my lights in manual.

And I did exaggerate but it is an issue. I never use any units at full power.....can't think of any time I've had to right off hand.


*Robin* - robincookphotography.c​om (external link) - Canon - 5D, 5DMKII, 70-200 f/2.8, 17-40 f/4, 50 f/1.4, 24-70 f/2.8L, 100mm f2.8, Sigma 150-500, 4 Speedlites, B400, B1600, Large Softbox & Stripbox FOR SALE, Elinchrom Quadra S-head set ....Lowepro 300 & F.64 to tote the madness...

  
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Titus213
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Oct 28, 2010 23:32 |  #20

blocks wrote in post #11184467 (external link)
Hi, could this be because the person is using it at full power and not letting the unit recharge? So a new set of lights could fix the problem even if it's more of a user created error than a mechanical fault.

Not allowing sufficient time for the units to recycle would cause the problem but that will not generally be corrected by buying new lights.


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Tobi.
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Oct 29, 2010 07:34 |  #21

Titus213 wrote in post #11185602 (external link)
Not allowing sufficient time for the units to recycle would cause the problem but that will not generally be corrected by buying new lights.

That will be corrected with buying more powerful lights, which usually recycle to full in the same amount of time as the weaker lights and to the same energy level a lot faster.

Also buying lights that don't trigger when not fully charged will help. That way, the error is obvious because the picture will be dark.

Tobi




  
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mickeyjuice
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Oct 29, 2010 13:50 |  #22
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BadgirlIROC wrote in post #11185045 (external link)
And I did exaggerate but it is an issue. I never use any units at full power.....can't think of any time I've had to right off hand.

This AB frustration can be seen - repeatedly - in Zack Arias's CreativeLive workshop (which is great, BTW, on a few different levels).


cheers, juice (Canon shooter, Elinchrom lighter, but pretty much agnostic on brands.)

  
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Greg ­ Edge
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Oct 29, 2010 19:25 |  #23

I like Lumedyne for portable strobes. Very consistent, modular and rugged. Their standard heads can go up to 800ws. The 065 packs are 50-100-200ws. 067 packs also have 400ws. You can add boosters to gain more power. One pack can run 2 heads.




  
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Titus213
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Oct 29, 2010 20:21 |  #24

Tobi. wrote in post #11186727 (external link)
That will be corrected with buying more powerful lights, which usually recycle to full in the same amount of time as the weaker lights and to the same energy level a lot faster.

Also buying lights that don't trigger when not fully charged will help. That way, the error is obvious because the picture will be dark.

Tobi

I think the problem is that the frame was dark because the flash didn't fire. But you are correct it should be obvious.

It's also obvious that people determined to solve user error with more expensive equipment will graduate to expensive user error.


Dave
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Scatterbrained
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Oct 29, 2010 20:32 |  #25

Titus213 wrote in post #11190617 (external link)
........
It's also obvious that people determined to solve user error with more expensive equipment will graduate to expensive user error.

:mrgreen:bw! I'm not trying to make a statement one way or the other about the OP but this line is farkin great.


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george ­ m ­ w
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Oct 29, 2010 20:53 |  #26

It's also obvious that people determined to solve user error with more expensive equipment will graduate to expensive user error.

....oh Dave....THAT is classic ! I've got to add that in my sig line ! LOL


regards, george w

"It's also obvious that people determined to solve user error with more expensive equipment will graduate to expensive user error."
Dave N.

  
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mickeyjuice
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Oct 29, 2010 21:43 |  #27
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Just another example of BW being used when it's completely ridiculous to do so.


cheers, juice (Canon shooter, Elinchrom lighter, but pretty much agnostic on brands.)

  
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george ­ m ­ w
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Oct 29, 2010 22:39 |  #28

Robin,

It might be helpful and make it easier for folks to offer you advice if you would clarify a few things. And forgive me if I missed this in your other thread that is on this subject, but I don't recall seeing these things spelled out:

Do you have a budgeted number of dollars ?

What specifically are you trying to accomplish ?
In other words, how many lights do you want to buy/use within this budget ?

What specific modifiers do you plan on using ?

Is it important that you use this common equipment in your studio and also
for location shoots, or can you have separate gear to take to location ?

If you could answer these questions, then it would be easier for folks here to give specific recommendations.

Part of my logic in asking these questions in this way, is because to be honest, the mix of lighting gear you have looks to me to be a rather confused mix that would be difficult at best to make a coordinated effort with. For instance, personally, in the AB line, I would not have chosen a B400 to shoot alongside a B1600....and I think your comments in the thread have shown that this is a combo that gives you frustration. Honestly the 1600 is most likely more power than you reasonably need for much of your indoor needs, so you end up with these issues of not being able to throttle back the power enough. And then on the same set, you have a B400, that may or may not have enough power, depending on what modifier you need to use for a given situation....so you end up compromising other aspects of the creative lighting by moving the light closer or farther from the subject. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish, this may work, or it may give you a quality of of light that is not what you want. Do you see what I mean ? So for instance....let's just talk about the AB line because that is all I own, so it's really all I can give direct use comment on. Suppose you had two B800's in place of your 400 and 1600. See where I'm going with this ? You would have a matched set, power wise, then you might be able to more easily deal with light output issues. It also makes the model lights matched in a way that makes it easier to use them to visualize what your final outcome is going to be.

I suspect the same would hold true if you had Elinchrom, or any other brand....if you have wildly differing outputs from these various sources, it is more to think about during setup, and more to deal with if/when you change things up on the set during a shoot.

I don't even want to think about the headaches you are encountering due to trying to integrate these small, low output speedlights in the same set.

So if you could, try to answer those specific questions, and also think about what modifiers you now have, and what of that will be usable depending on how you change up your gear. Because as you know, modifiers, stands, triggers, etc all need to be factored in to the budget.
On the other hand, if you have a very high dollar figure as for budget, then this would open a LOT more possibilities.


regards, george w

"It's also obvious that people determined to solve user error with more expensive equipment will graduate to expensive user error."
Dave N.

  
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BadgirlIROC
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Oct 29, 2010 22:53 |  #29

George you totally understand what my frustration is!!!! *whew* Yes I am having a hard time because of mixing all the wide variety. I got what I did as just trying to get a little here and there and now I've gone so far and am doing magazine ads and pages and shooting lots of models and I need to get a new set of similar lights instead of literally 5 different ones. YES the AB's are so different and it's tiringly frustating.

Do you have a budgeted number of dollars ?
$1800 (right now)

What specifically are you trying to accomplish ?
Awesome, consistant, reliable, good recycle times

In other words, how many lights do you want to buy/use within this budget ?
I'd love at least 2 but if I need to keep saving I will. This is why I brought up the Genesis 300B because I could get a few of them and they get some fantastic reviews so close to the Quadras but at an inth of the price. I can move up later but I have some big huge shoots coming up that will be featured in magazines so I need to get my crap together! In fact, this weekend I am in FL (live in GA) photographing homes for a company and my SB-80DX just died. Now my B400 clicks but does not fire, I think I accidently bumped the bulb in transit though (someone put something else in its bag)...so I was left with my twin 383's (always reliable) and the 430 ex (always hated it) and the b1600. Since all this thread and such I really paid attention to recycle times and I was having to wait up to a minute for recycling (putting on full just to overpower the sun so I could show the view out of windows) ((ok yes I do it on full in that instance). I realized how frustrating it is waiting for that green on the back. I usually use 4- 5 lights in homes and I was having to use 3 - that's what you call pulling a rabbit out of somewhere!

What specific modifiers do you plan on using ? I love using a large softbox, I want stripboxes with grids, I love grids. I use all of that when shooting models (I do mainly pinup and fashion).

Is it important that you use this common equipment in your studio and also
for location shoots, or can you have separate gear to take to location ?

Yes I need it to be all the same. Stay and shoot or go and shoot. I just don't have the funds to do anything other than that and can't just put some top gear on a card.


Hope that helps!!


*Robin* - robincookphotography.c​om (external link) - Canon - 5D, 5DMKII, 70-200 f/2.8, 17-40 f/4, 50 f/1.4, 24-70 f/2.8L, 100mm f2.8, Sigma 150-500, 4 Speedlites, B400, B1600, Large Softbox & Stripbox FOR SALE, Elinchrom Quadra S-head set ....Lowepro 300 & F.64 to tote the madness...

  
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george ­ m ­ w
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Oct 29, 2010 23:27 |  #30

That clears a lot of it up Robin. I'll give it some thought and look at prices of stuff tomorrow and post back. And I will tell you and the others right now, I'm going to stay in the PCB/AB line up, because it is what I know and use. I'm not necessarily trying to say, "buy this brand".....I'm just saying that it is what I use, so it's the only one I can speak from experience on.
I think budget is going to get critical on this project for you, since you will need a number of modifiers. But hopefully we can come up with a workable variety for you to consider, and you can move forward.

Others can chime in with their ideas from other manufacturers, and hopefully everybody will keep in mind the availability, quality and cost of modifiers, grids, triggers, etc.
I use pocket wizards ( Flex tt5, mini tt1 and plus 2 ) but I know others here have used other brands that cost less and are also reliable....so maybe they can post their ideas on that as well.

I've looked thru your website, and you have some very nice work there, so your talent level certainly deserves to be supported by good, reliable gear.

I feel your pain having gear fail on you while out. That's no fun.


regards, george w

"It's also obvious that people determined to solve user error with more expensive equipment will graduate to expensive user error."
Dave N.

  
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Break it down, please (Genesis 300b, Bees, Quadra)
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
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