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Thread started 07 Nov 2010 (Sunday) 16:43
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My gosh! The Pentax K-5 has ridiculous dynamic range! (Sample shot linked)

 
DStanic
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Nov 09, 2010 12:00 |  #46

Wow the D7000 looks quite a bit better to me then the D3100! Obviously there is the price difference but we're so used to crop cameras all having very similar IQ. I'd love to see the D7000 put up against the 7D or a FF canon for comparison!


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AngryCorgi
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Nov 09, 2010 12:05 |  #47

DStanic wrote in post #11253360 (external link)
Wow the D7000 looks quite a bit better to me then the D3100! Obviously there is the price difference but we're so used to crop cameras all having very similar IQ. I'd love to see the D7000 put up against the 7D or a FF canon for comparison!

In normal shooting, the D3100 high-ISO IQ is very comparable to the D7000 up to ISO3200. The D7000 looks a tad better at ISO6400 and even more impressive at ISO12800, comparitively. Despite them being so similar, the DR is VERY different. It is most apparent when shooting the same landscape scene with both cameras and bringing the shadows up. Not only is there more information in the shadows, but the details appear sharp and as though they were shot at proper exposure. The D3100 details when brought up only 3-4EV start looking muddled and the shadows simply look bad.


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AngryCorgi
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Nov 09, 2010 12:17 |  #48

Also, when pulling the ETTL move (and I'm not referring to Canon's flash system ;)), staying in 14-bit RAW mode is definitely beneficial. While 12-bit should cover the same basic range, the greater number of steps really shows up when the shadows get decompressed.

12-bit, pushed about 7EV (over-exposed to amplify issue)

IMAGE: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1187/5152050992_996d36704e_o.jpg

14-bit, pushed about 7EV (over-exposed to amplify issue)
IMAGE: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5152050892_689da5da13_o.jpg

That's actually over-exposed by ~1EV to amplify the tonal differences (and in doing so, amplify the noise, since a 7EV push is about like shooting ISO12800, but bringing close to ISO25600-level of noise). Also you'll notice the 12-bit seems to carry considerably more yellow noise blobs, causing a strong yellow color cast. Ick!

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DStanic
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Nov 09, 2010 12:19 |  #49

^^ comparing the DR of my 5D to the 30D and 40D sure there is approx 1 stop advantage regarding noise (3200 on the 5D looks at least as good as 1600 on the croppers, if not better) but the detail and DR I have to work with really makes the difference!


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tkbslc
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Nov 09, 2010 12:22 |  #50

Impressive. Can anyone show it benefiting a real world shot? If all it does is save extreme underexposure, then I will just keep shooting cheaper cameras and not underexpose! :)


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TeamSpeed
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Nov 09, 2010 12:22 |  #51

So with a 7D, how exactly do I test a -5EV shot, for example? I believe I can only bring exposure back up 2 stops in DPP, so how can I get the remaining exposure for the remainder? Probably a silly question, but I never shoot to the left at all, I shoot to the right just a bit and bring the exposure down a little in raw.


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woos
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Nov 09, 2010 12:25 |  #52

TeamSpeed wrote in post #11253498 (external link)
So with a 7D, how exactly do I test a -5EV shot, for example? I believe I can only bring exposure back up 2 stops in DPP, so how can I get the remaining exposure for the remainder? Probably a silly question, but I never shoot to the left at all, I shoot to the right just a bit and bring the exposure down a little in raw.

You'd need a different program...like raw therapee or something...don't waste your time :)

Anyway, nice cams! Was telling my old boss (nikon shooter, has a d100 i think) to check out the 7000, it's pretty impressive!


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Raylon
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Nov 09, 2010 12:55 |  #53

Does any of this really apply though to real world differences? I don't think anyone is going to underexpose shots by 5 stops and just hope they can pull it out later. When properly exposing shots, how much better are they going to look?


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tkbslc
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Nov 09, 2010 12:57 |  #54

Raylon wrote in post #11253672 (external link)
Does any of this really apply though to real world differences? I don't think anyone is going to underexpose shots by 5 stops and just hope they can pull it out later. When properly exposing shots, how much better are they going to look?

Yeah, that's what I want to know, too.


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mpix345
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Nov 09, 2010 13:48 |  #55

Raylon wrote in post #11253672 (external link)
Does any of this really apply though to real world differences? I don't think anyone is going to underexpose shots by 5 stops and just hope they can pull it out later. When properly exposing shots, how much better are they going to look?

tkbslc wrote in post #11253680 (external link)
Yeah, that's what I want to know, too.

I was under the impression that this kind of cold, hard logic is a bannable offense around here. ;)

Isn't the point of all this to shoot test patterns in dark rooms? I'm so confused...


  
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Shadowblade
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Nov 09, 2010 15:34 |  #56

Raylon wrote in post #11253672 (external link)
Does any of this really apply though to real world differences? I don't think anyone is going to underexpose shots by 5 stops and just hope they can pull it out later. When properly exposing shots, how much better are they going to look?

It'll reduce the need for image blending/HDR in situations where there is no straight line of transition for a GND. Many properly-exposed landscapes have some very deep shadows and very bright highlights - the exposure is correct, but the dynamic range is huge. Where you can't use a GND (e.g. sunrise in the mountains) you need multiple exposures, to be combined later. With this expanded dynamic range, you often won't.




  
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tkbslc
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Nov 09, 2010 15:45 |  #57

That's nice in theory, but where's the comparison shots? :)


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John ­ Sheehy
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Nov 09, 2010 16:11 |  #58

mpix345 wrote in post #11253941 (external link)
I was under the impression that this kind of cold, hard logic is a bannable offense around here. ;)

Isn't the point of all this to shoot test patterns in dark rooms? I'm so confused...

These are just quick-and-dirty, cut-to-the-chase proofs of the camera's DR or exposure latitude. They are not ultimate examples of what can be done. That should be self-explanatory.




  
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tkbslc
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Nov 09, 2010 16:17 |  #59

John Sheehy wrote in post #11254765 (external link)
These are just quick-and-dirty, cut-to-the-chase proofs of the camera's DR or exposure latitude. They are not ultimate examples of what can be done. That should be self-explanatory.


Perhaps I am ignorant, but it is not self explanatory. I'd love to see some examples where it is improving real photos, and/or prints.


Taylor
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C2S
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Nov 09, 2010 17:21 |  #60

Can't give any real photo examples as I don't own the said camera, but this kind of dynamic range would help with freezing motion in dark conditions, if flash isn't preferred. Night scene shooters will probably love it too: noise-free, high DoF night scene images usually require several minute long exposures, but it looks like this camera could give you similar images with a significantly reduced exposure time.

It might also be beneficial in creating clean high dynamic range images (not the cartoon "HDR") of any high dynamic range scenes, without having to resort to multiple exposures. What's worth noticing, is that motion would now be less of a problem (treetops, people), since you could use a higher shutter speed to freeze it and still find usable shadow details to work with, whether doing this would result in a noticeable underexposure or not.

So a must-have for some, beneficial to some, and not needed for some.


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My gosh! The Pentax K-5 has ridiculous dynamic range! (Sample shot linked)
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