What do you say to someone who wants to pay you less... much less?

You need a split personality. One is the photographer and the other is the sales/marketing manager. Have the sales guy ask the photographer guy what his rates are (put this in writting so the sales guy has it to look at). When in sales mode you have to go by the guidlines set by the photographer. The sales guy can say what the company charges and he can't make changes.

Many years ago a friend reconditioned Rancheros (the ford car/truck thing). When he got no response to an ad in the paper he raised the price in the ad. Can not tell you why it worked but he frequently sold on the second higher price ad.

If you don't place a value on what you do someone else will. And you probably won't like it.

tkbslc wrote in post #11259401
It's obvious that all they did was figure out that $800/20 = $40. So they want to pay you $40 per person now.

I figured that much. Is $40 per person per sitting okay? Considering what I have to do and that three of the subjects are women, I'm hesitating. The first one I ever did, both women took up (no exaggerations) about 20-30 frames each. It was a lot of going back and forth and they just couldn't decide little things like "should I wear my jacket?" and various poses they wanted to try. It wasn't hell but it was irritating. Lol.

Seanzky wrote in post #11259444
I figured that much. Is $40 per person per sitting okay? Considering what I have to do and that three of the subjects are women, I'm hesitating. The first one I ever did, both women took up (no exaggerations) about 20-30 frames each. It was a lot of going back and forth and they just couldn't decide little things like "should I wear my jacket?" and various poses they wanted to try. It wasn't hell but it was irritating. Lol.

Not if you are doing 1 person! I'd be explaining to the client that it does not work that way. It's the same reason that you can't buy 2 slices of bread for 10 cents. I mean if GM sold only 1 car it would cost $50,000,000. Stuff gets cheaper per unit the more you can produce at a time.

Also consider that if the last photographer was willing to do it for $250, they probably wouldn't be calling you.

Seanzky wrote in post #11259427
Driving through Manhattan traffic, valet parking in a garage and then walking with like six bags (since my hand truck sucks and is kind of broken) for 3-4 block is very discouraging.

How long will it take you? Maybe 30 mins driving each way, 30mins total walking and one hour for arriving at the location, getting to know the people there and setup, 15mins per portrait? That's a total of almost 4 hours.

Tobi

colonel klink wrote in post #11259432
You need a split personality. One is the photographer and the other is the sales/marketing manager. Have the sales guy ask the photographer guy what his rates are (put this in writting so the sales guy has it to look at). When in sales mode you have to go by the guidlines set by the photographer. The sales guy can say what the company charges and he can't make changes.

Many years ago a friend reconditioned Rancheros (the ford car/truck thing). When he got no response to an ad in the paper he raised the price in the ad. Can not tell you why it worked but he frequently sold on the second higher price ad.

If you don't place a value on what you do someone else will. And you probably won't like it.

tkbslc wrote in post #11259451
Not if you are doing 1 person! I'd be explaining to the client that it does not work that way. It's the same reason that you can't buy 2 slices of bread for 10 cents. I mean if GM sold only 1 car it would cost $50,000,000. Stuff gets cheaper per unit the more you can produce at a time.

Also consider that if the last photographer was willing to do it for $250, they probably wouldn't be calling you.

Both good advice, but I'm almost certain if I say no to this, they will hire the other guy instead. It seems to me that their budget is very important. But I know a firm of 60+ people can afford more than $250.

Tobi. wrote in post #11259456
How long will it take you? Maybe 30 mins driving each way, 30mins total walking and one hour for arriving at the location, getting to know the people there and setup, 15mins per portrait? That's a total of almost 4 hours.

Tobi

Maybe less than 4 hours total on the shoot. Hmmm... what to do?

But remember, such difficulties don't figure into my small-town price. In the same circumstance as you, I would charge significantly more than I do.

Never do anything for free. Ever. If you don't respect your work, nobody else is going to either. Also, it's much easier to bring a price down a little bit from a high point than it is to come up from Zero and charge any price. - Something to think about.

IN NYC, i wouldn't go any less than 1k. That's just me. Everything is inflated there and they know this. So there are no surprises on either end.

.02

Seanzky wrote in post #11259510
Maybe less than 4 hours total on the shoot. Hmmm... what to do?

+ Post processing
+ Packing it all up
+ Unpacking

Why don't you try to figure out the time it will take you as exact as you can? Then figure out your hourly rate and ask for that price.

Tobi

Economy of scale, therefore prices aren't linear and just because they paid $800 for 20 does not mean it is $40/person. Would you drive and set up a shoot for $40 for only one person? There's certain minimal costs involved whether shooting one person or six. Perhaps you could charge by time rather than by the person as it's easier to justify. And what does the client want delivered, how many pics of each, how many scenes, prints, ...ect. $250 seems too low to me.

$500 (first time only) or no go.

I'm reasonably sure that they don't let someone lowball them so badly on their invoices. Neither should you.

It's not your fault they didn't research the other photog more thoroughly before they hired him/her. It's not your fault that he/she did a poor enough job to not be rehired. Ergo, it's not your job to pick up the tab for the other person's failings...both the photog and the client.

What Taylor said and the others. Then again, you never know where an opportunity may come from; perhaps you'll get more business from this. I personally would only do it if I knew that I won't lose anything from it and more than break even with gas and so forth.

Seanzky wrote in post #11259427
I would probably do $500 then. I'm not trying to put myself on a pedestal here. A job is a job. But I was just wondering what you guys think.

Driving through Manhattan traffic, valet parking in a garage and then walking with like six bags (since my hand truck sucks and is kind of broken) for 3-4 block is very discouraging.

All that hassle for $250, no way. Even $500 seems too low. If you do not need the experience then stick with your original quote.

mumbles wrote in post #11259657
Never do anything for free. Ever. If you don't respect your work, nobody else is going to either. Also, it's much easier to bring a price down a little bit from a high point than it is to come up from Zero and charge any price. - Something to think about.

IN NYC, i wouldn't go any less than 1k. That's just me. Everything is inflated there and they know this. So there are no surprises on either end.

.02

Why is it so bad to do free work if you are trying to gain experience? So, don't even shoot someone's b-day party in their backyard? I shoot portraits for friends and I may spend a day or two in post in addition to the couple hours of shooting but I don't charge them even if they use it for a commercial purpose. I figure it as I'm renting a model that allows me to experiment with various things so I feel it's an even trade for their time. Is that wrong? Also, I'm going to be shooting a relative's wedding in the next month but they hired pros so I'm just basically doing it for the experience. There is an expectation of pics from me so should I charge?

Tell you what...I'll take the job for $250 and the money that could have been yours...

barkingspud wrote in post #11259802
Tell you what...I'll take the job for $250 and the money that could have been yours...

So after you pay for airline tickets to NYC and a night in an NYC hotel, how much will you be in the hole?

RDKirk wrote in post #11259837
So after you pay for airline tickets to NYC and a night in an NYC hotel, how much will you be in the hole?

Quick estimate:

$2500.