Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos Video and Sound Editing 
Thread started 28 Nov 2010 (Sunday) 10:41
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Color Grading: Advance Flat settings

 
Nino ­ Gallego
Senior Member
Avatar
724 posts
Joined Jul 2009
Location: New Jersey
     
Nov 28, 2010 10:41 |  #1

I started reading about color grading lately, and I want to know more about it. If someone can explain it in a less technical aspect to where I can relate it to photography. For in DSLR it records in h.264 and not in raw so post processing requires different set of techniques. So can anybody explain couple of things:

1. how to achieve "advance flat setting"

2. advantages of "advance flat setting"

3. how to manipulate "advance flat setting"

4. other settings that is as good as "advance flat setting"

5. what is a .pf2 file? and I have seen places that enables you to download .pf2 profiles.

6. how or what program is .pf2 files in conjunctions with?


-website (external link)-/-

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Red ­ Tie ­ Photography
Goldmember
Avatar
3,575 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Nov 2009
Location: San Diego
     
Nov 28, 2010 23:37 |  #2

Id be interested to hear the answers to some of these too. I found a video somewhere on how to flatten the video, but I don't know enough about pp on how to bring it back up.


Bryan
Gear List (external link)
San Diego Wedding Photography - Red Tie Photography (external link)
Red Tie Photography Blog (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ren ­ Tachino
Member
74 posts
Joined Sep 2010
     
Nov 29, 2010 00:37 |  #3

I'm not an expert, so I can't answer all of your questions, but I can answer some. I believe when they say "flat," it is mostly lowering the saturation and sharpness. It's basically making the footage more versatile for post production, instead of having the colors baked into the footage. If you "flatten" your footage, then you will be able to have more control over color grading as opposed to a "less flat" picture where all the colors are already embedded into the footage. This has just been my understanding though, so don't necessarily take my word for it.

As for the .pf2 files, they are custom picture styles. You can use EOS Utility to register those .pf2 files as custom picture styles on your camera (under those 3 "user defined settings" options you have).




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nino ­ Gallego
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
724 posts
Joined Jul 2009
Location: New Jersey
     
Nov 29, 2010 07:50 |  #4

Ren Tachino wrote in post #11361853 (external link)
I'm not an expert, so I can't answer all of your questions, but I can answer some. I believe when they say "flat," it is mostly lowering the saturation and sharpness. It's basically making the footage more versatile for post production, instead of having the colors baked into the footage. If you "flatten" your footage, then you will be able to have more control over color grading as opposed to a "less flat" picture where all the colors are already embedded into the footage. This has just been my understanding though, so don't necessarily take my word for it.

As for the .pf2 files, they are custom picture styles. You can use EOS Utility to register those .pf2 files as custom picture styles on your camera (under those 3 "user defined settings" options you have).

Thanks Ren,

That helped a lot. I uploaded some picture profiles to my cam and now I just have to shoot and monkey around post and maybe that will answer my own questions. ;)


-website (external link)-/-

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Trey ­ T
Senior Member
Avatar
869 posts
Joined May 2009
Location: Texas
     
Nov 29, 2010 09:18 |  #5

I believe it helps to understand what "dynamic range" is. When you understand it, you'll get a better idea about picture setting. but shooting flat will gain more details in black, increasing dynamic range.

I shoot as a hobby mostly and I try to get away from color grading. I shoot standard w/ -2 contrast and -2 sharpness.


10 Most overpaid job (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lecherro
Senior Member
808 posts
Likes: 6
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Garland, Texas (Outside Dallas)
     
Nov 29, 2010 12:24 |  #6

NinoColor Grading is an industry in itself. It can be a whole specialized career. I have never heard of the advanced flat setting and not sure what Ren is speaking of. Not that Ren is wrong I just have never heard those terms. A lo depends on what program you will be using to grade. I use the Final Cut Pro Suite and have access to a program called "Color". it is a very powerful grading program I dont really speak its language for many reason but have begun to explore the possibilities in it. I would suggest you find the program you want to use. Final Cut / After Effects / Soby Vegas / Avid / and many others, learn the way that program grades color and go from there. Start by making white look white and black look black. Then move on to playing with Gamma (Gray) levels. From there you can evvolve to more complicated techniques. How to do all that depends on the program you select and how you decide to go about it. Color Grading is an Art. it is subjective. Have fun.


First step........ Take the lens cap off.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ren ­ Tachino
Member
74 posts
Joined Sep 2010
     
Nov 29, 2010 14:10 |  #7

Trey is correct, too, that shooting flat helps to increase Dynamic Range. Take a look at this.

http://vimeo.com/72563​22 (external link)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lecherro
Senior Member
808 posts
Likes: 6
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Garland, Texas (Outside Dallas)
     
Nov 29, 2010 14:45 |  #8

After watching the video Ren Linked too I understand the questions a bot better. Thank you Ren, Awesome vid. I can really only answer one question #2. The advantage of shooting flat is that in video Once you cross the barrier of Black or White the image is lost. A lot of people like the "Crushed blacks" look ie "Black Hawk Down" If you crush your video and oversaturate during shooting, If you want to scale back the effect you cannot. If you shoot flat you can grade the video to get that look, then if its too much you can scale it back a bit. you have more room to play with the image. If you shoot something over 100 IRE n a scope Its white, there is no getting the picture to come back, Same goes with black. But if I shoot to 85 or 90 IRE i can push the image to blowout the white or black.


First step........ Take the lens cap off.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nino ­ Gallego
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
724 posts
Joined Jul 2009
Location: New Jersey
     
Nov 29, 2010 16:07 |  #9

Trey T wrote in post #11363140 (external link)
I believe it helps to understand what "dynamic range" is. When you understand it, you'll get a better idea about picture setting. but shooting flat will gain more details in black, increasing dynamic range.

I shoot as a hobby mostly and I try to get away from color grading. I shoot standard w/ -2 contrast and -2 sharpness.

Thanks Trey, now things are starting to make sense now. Since I am so used to photography and used Raw in post processing. So increasing the dynamic range of the footage makes is more pliable for post processing.

lecherro wrote in post #11364101 (external link)
NinoColor Grading is an industry in itself. It can be a whole specialized career. I have never heard of the advanced flat setting and not sure what Ren is speaking of. Not that Ren is wrong I just have never heard those terms. A lo depends on what program you will be using to grade. I use the Final Cut Pro Suite and have access to a program called "Color". it is a very powerful grading program I dont really speak its language for many reason but have begun to explore the possibilities in it. I would suggest you find the program you want to use. Final Cut / After Effects / Soby Vegas / Avid / and many others, learn the way that program grades color and go from there. Start by making white look white and black look black. Then move on to playing with Gamma (Gray) levels. From there you can evvolve to more complicated techniques. How to do all that depends on the program you select and how you decide to go about it. Color Grading is an Art. it is subjective. Have fun.

I believe you lecherro, I think its like being a photoshop wizard in photography.

Ren Tachino wrote in post #11364699 (external link)
Trey is correct, too, that shooting flat helps to increase Dynamic Range. Take a look at this.

http://vimeo.com/72563​22 (external link)

Thanks for the link: its so informative and funny. ;)

lecherro wrote in post #11364923 (external link)
After watching the video Ren Linked too I understand the questions a bot better. Thank you Ren, Awesome vid. I can really only answer one question #2. The advantage of shooting flat is that in video Once you cross the barrier of Black or White the image is lost. A lot of people like the "Crushed blacks" look ie "Black Hawk Down" If you crush your video and oversaturate during shooting, If you want to scale back the effect you cannot. If you shoot flat you can grade the video to get that look, then if its too much you can scale it back a bit. you have more room to play with the image. If you shoot something over 100 IRE n a scope Its white, there is no getting the picture to come back, Same goes with black. But if I shoot to 85 or 90 IRE i can push the image to blowout the white or black.

Now, this is the very reason why I posted this. I recently shot a film for my personal learning. I am a newbie in this field and I want learn the in's and out's of this.

http://vimeo.com/17098​474 (external link)

I use Final Cut Pro and I tried playing around with color. But like what Lecherro said, crushing the blacks and blowing the whites makes it very hard to process because I lost a lot of information/details already. Unlike RAW images, I have at least a full step over and underexposed to play with.. Now I feel like shooting in Jpeg's the whole time doing videos. Also, color correcting as far as white balance is so hard to achieve once you messed it up already. This is why I wondered how stillmotion/vincent laforet works retain so much information even shooting at wide open and not blow whites or crush blacks. Now I know a little bit. hehehe

Now, this just opened a whole new set of knowledge for me. This is going to be fun.. ;)

Thank so much for the help guys. If anybody have more stuff to toss in, please don't hesitate to share..


-website (external link)-/-

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lecherro
Senior Member
808 posts
Likes: 6
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Garland, Texas (Outside Dallas)
     
Nov 29, 2010 17:11 |  #10

One other.....Two other things. mp4 files are pretty low i think on the color space information. i think they 2:4:0 i could be wrong. If they are Convert them in Compressor to something with a more robust color space. I use Apple Prores and dont seem t notice any difficulties. Keep in mind I am not a pro grader. Also FCP is and RGB based color system and Color is YUV. to very close relatives in the video world but they will never match perfectly. IMHO i have never noticed anything to complain about.


First step........ Take the lens cap off.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
peter ­ nap
Senior Member
581 posts
Joined Mar 2009
     
Nov 29, 2010 19:04 as a reply to  @ lecherro's post |  #11

Like Trey, I don't like to color grade more than necessary. I usually have to get it out in a hurry.

I use Neutral with Sharpness and Contrast flat and Saturation turned down a couple clicks. That seems to give me a lot of control with Magic Bullet which is a real time saver.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Trey ­ T
Senior Member
Avatar
869 posts
Joined May 2009
Location: Texas
     
Nov 30, 2010 08:21 |  #12

Here's a link (external link) to the bolded statement for everyone to read up.

lecherro wrote in post #11365673 (external link)
One other.....Two other things. mp4 files are pretty low i think on the color space information. i think they 2:4:0 i could be wrong. If they are Convert them in Compressor to something with a more robust color space. I use Apple Prores and dont seem t notice any difficulties. Keep in mind I am not a pro grader. Also FCP is and RGB based color system and Color is YUV. to very close relatives in the video world but they will never match perfectly. IMHO i have never noticed anything to complain about.


10 Most overpaid job (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

3,651 views & 0 likes for this thread
Color Grading: Advance Flat settings
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos Video and Sound Editing 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is FCantStop
910 guests, 270 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.