Review: Gitzo 1541T Tripod, Markins Q3T Ballhead w/ RRS B2 LR II Clamp

In my case I requested no Loctite with my order. The delivered ball, stud and clamp had no evidence of being previously assembled with Loctite. The delivery was approx 4 weeks ago.

I noticed that the twist locks on my new Gitzo 1541T look kind of faded. The effect is cool but I suspect that I was given a used set. Considering how much I paid for it, that just won't fly. Is this normal, or did B&H pull a fast one on me?

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Huh, that is odd. Mine set is over two years old now and dont look that faded. Try a cotton swab and some rubbing alcohol on them, maybe its just dust or something from the manufacturing process.

actually, that faded look seems about the norm for tripods that have been sitting on the shelf for a bit. i use my 1541t frequently, so the oils on my hands are probably keeping the rubber looking nice and fresh.

i just went tripod shopping and purchased some gt3530s gitzo legs and the locks looked like that on three copies of the same legs. im assuming it was because these were the discontinued models and were sitting on the shelves while the gt3531s' were being sold. they all looked and functioned brand new (i tried three copies because im THAT anal). FWIW, the gt3530s and gt3531s are practically the same tripod minus a weight hook, and because it was a discontinued item the store sold it to me for 550. oddly enough, i called gitzo and it also qualifies for the current rebates, so i just got a $725 tripod for $510. score!

static808 wrote in post #11391642
actually, that faded look seems about the norm for tripods that have been sitting on the shelf for a bit. i use my 1541t frequently, so the oils on my hands are probably keeping the rubber looking nice and fresh.

i just went tripod shopping and purchased some gt3530s gitzo legs and the locks looked like that on three copies of the same legs. im assuming it was because these were the discontinued models and were sitting on the shelves while the gt3531s' were being sold. they all looked and functioned brand new (i tried three copies because im THAT anal). FWIW, the gt3530s and gt3531s are practically the same tripod minus a weight hook, and because it was a discontinued item the store sold it to me for 550. oddly enough, i called gitzo and it also qualifies for the current rebates, so i just got a $725 tripod for $510. score!

Oh wow! Thats a pretty darn good deal! Lucky find!

ben_r_ wrote in post #11391666
Oh wow! Thats a pretty darn good deal! Lucky find!

thanks ben. lucky indeed. if anyone in the Los Angeles area is looking for these legs, Silvio's camera in Torrance had two more when i left.

just used some rubber conditioner on the leg locks, wiped them down real well afterwards (since the conditioner makes them a tad slippery), and they look like new. all is well.

Andyh77 wrote in post #11342378
That is very interesting Peter. Now that I am back in my workshop I have made a few measurements. I have measured the longitudinal float of the Gitzo stud part-way engaged in the Q3T base. I have made a similar measurement on a generic 3/8 inch – 16 TPI bolt and nut. The longitudinal float on the Q3T is 0.38 mm while on the generic bolt / nut engagement it is 0.10 mm. So there is nearly 4 times the float / play in the longitudinal direction when comparing the Q3T with a generic bolt / nut. Subjectively the bolt /nut has a reassuring feel to the fit, where-as the Gitzo stud / Q3T just feels sloppy and raises my concerns regarding strength.

Just to clarify a point I would like to stress that Loctite does not contribute to the tensile strength of the thread connection. It merely resists the undoing of the connection due to rotation. The tensile strength is largely a factor of the penetration of the thread crests into the valleys of the mating thread. If they do not penetrate too far then there is a risk that loading the connection, by tightening or by normal service loads, will just shear off the tips of the thread crests, with a catastrophic failure of the connection, (i.e. camera on the rocks). Loctite will not help in this situation.

I have put my observations to markins@gmail.com and hope to hear their considered opinion soon. I’ll report back here when that happens.

Andy

Aren't the rubber bands an issue in your test set up? If so, why not?

J.

While I'm not Andy, I'd venture a guess that his apparatus is pushing down on the ball head rather than trying to lift it. So the rubber bands would be irrelevant.

Why is up and down play such a concern? I'd be much more worried about side to side.

J.

The rubber bands are holding down the head with a vengeance. A force of several kilograms is required to initiate any movement at all between the Q3T and the timber member under it. On the other hand only minimal force is required to lift and lower the stud (to overcome the weight of the stud and the gentle spring tension of the dial gauge). It is this up and down movement of the stud that the gauge is measuring.

There certainly is a lot of slop on the side to side movement but this is more difficult to quantify in a repeatable way. The up and down movement is a good indicator of the overall slop in the connection and gives repeatable results. The vertical float is almost independent of how far the stud is engaged into the Q3T, unlike the side to side movement.

I have not heard back from Markins yet, so it’s about time to send off a reminder.

Andy

What this doesn't account for is the stabilizing pressure of the ballhead screwed down onto the platform of the tripod. The Ballhead does not depend on the stud strictly for up and down stability. The interference of the tripod platform is going to cause any slop in the bolt/threads to be driven to one side or the other of the tolerance - it I'm understanding what you are trying to look at. If you were to look at any play here, you need to do it when mounted on the tripod and measure it that way. If I have this correctly, this may be an interesting artifact but not representative of the mechanical system when installed.

J.

If there is too much slop / play in a threaded connection prior to the final tightening, then there is a risk that the connection may fail upon tightening or service loading. In the limit case this is due to the high stress concentrations that occur as the load attempts to be transferred from the very tip of the thread crest on one side of the connection to the corresponding tip on the other side.

I am curious to know whether the manufacturing tolerances of Markins and Gitzo can explain my observation of a very loose thread and

peter_n’s observation in #1524 that:

“…… it's very loose to screw on. Not as loose on the Benro, but not by much. I have a second Q3T and that is definitely tighter on the Gitzo.”

Andy

Quick questions:

Does a Q20 fit on a series 2, specifically GT-2531? Or is the Q10 a perfect fit?

If you don't order the quickshoe with the ballhead, do you still have to remind them not to loctite the center bolt?

What is the minimum equipment you would recommend for a 7D/gripped + 70-200 f/2.8?

CitizenMinistry wrote in post #11402279
Quick questions:

Does a Q20 fit on a series 2, specifically GT-2531? Or is the Q10 a perfect fit?

If you don't order the quickshoe with the ballhead, do you still have to remind them not to loctite the center bolt?

What is the minimum equipment you would recommend for a 7D/gripped + 70-200 f/2.8?

Q20 will work with series 2 tripod no problem at all but Q10 is an ideal one. I have Q10 on my Gitzo 2542L. Q20 normally is recommended for series 3 or above.

I didn't quite understand the second question. I guess ballhead panning lock will do this.

Last question is hard to answer for now because we don't know if you'll upgrade your gear and lens in the future. If you only have one tripod for general purpose use, Gitzo series 2 should be good enough.

Sorry! I meant when ordering a Markins ballhead, if you don't order the quickshoe with it, do they still loctite the center bolt into the ballhead prior to shipping?