Things you wish you knew before you started your photography business...

Not to be rude, as this is all great discussion, but is it possible to maybe try to stay on topic in regards to "Things you wish you knew before you started your photography business"! Maybe some of this has relevance, I am just struggling to see it.

jakeg1999 wrote in post #11498787
Not to be rude, as this is all great discussion, but is it possible to maybe try to stay on topic in regards to "Things you wish you knew before you started your photography business"! Maybe some of this has relevance, I am just struggling to see it.

Most of it doesn't its a carry over from another thread that someone keeps trying to prove that primes are wrong for me and my vision.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #11498814
Most of it doesn't its a carry over from another thread that someone keeps trying to prove that primes are wrong for me and my vision.

Or that all photography businesses are doomed because they're no longer needed.

If we get away from the details and look at it at a macro level. There is less and less profitable work for professional photographers. There is a reason for that. One is certainly the introduction of digital cameras. The second is that everybody has one. Thirdly, many of those are fairly talented and are giving their work away for, basically, free so why should a client pay or pay as well as they used to. Look at stock images, as an example. Then there is less demand for published images. Less magazines, less newspapers, etc. Commercial news outlets are canvasing their audience to send in images for a credit.

It was mentioned before but there appears to be only 2 types of clients, one that doesn't want to pay. The "I can do that, why should I pay you" seems to be a common sentiment even if they don't say it. The other, demands the best and knows they will have to pay for it. There are a lot more photographers chasing the latter then there used to be, I think.

I wish the photographers that are doing this full time, the best of luck in the future.

bohdank wrote in post #11498929
If we get away from the details and look at it at a macro level. There is less and less profitable work for professional photographers. There is a reason for that. One is certainly the introduction of digital cameras. The second is that everybody has one. Thirdly, many of those are fairly talented and are giving their work away for, basically, free so why should a client pay or pay as well as they used to. Look at stock images, as an example. Then there is less demand for published images. Less magazines, less newspapers, etc. Commercial news outlets are canvasing their audience to send in images for a credit.

It was mentioned before but there appears to be only 2 types of clients, one that doesn't want to pay. The "I can do that, why should I pay you" seems to be a common sentiment even if they don't say it. The other, demands the best and knows they will have to pay for it. There are a lot more photographers chasing the latter then there used to be, I think.

I wish the photographers that are doing this full time, the best of luck in the future.

Sure. Not everyone will succeed. The reason is that people get into it thinking it's easy then find out it's not. That's not a photography thing, that's a running-a-business thing. Look around at the various companies in your town that do succeed. Make note of how many there are and how long they've been around. Take note that the survivors all provide at minimum a GOOD level of service/product, and they don't give it all away free.

The ONLY reason photography is a more common startup is the low perceived cost of entry and the fact that we pay attention to it more than gas stations, fast food joints, clothing stores, etc.

If you want to get rich easily, go to Wall Street. Oh wait.

bohdank wrote in post #11498929
If we get away from the details and look at it at a macro level. There is less and less profitable work for professional photographers. There is a reason for that. One is certainly the introduction of digital cameras. The second is that everybody has one. Thirdly, many of those are fairly talented and are giving their work away for, basically, free so why should a client pay or pay as well as they used to. Look at stock images, as an example. Then there is less demand for published images. Less magazines, less newspapers, etc. Commercial news outlets are canvasing their audience to send in images for a credit.

It was mentioned before but there appears to be only 2 types of clients, one that doesn't want to pay. The "I can do that, why should I pay you" seems to be a common sentiment even if they don't say it. The other, demands the best and knows they will have to pay for it. There are a lot more photographers chasing the latter then there used to be, I think.

I wish the photographers that are doing this full time, the best of luck in the future.

The secret in my opinion is finding clients that appreciate better work. They're out there. I have a stable of 20 or so very steady clients but its usually in areas that not everyone can get into. It took me YEARS to build the right relationships that are keeping me busy today. But it is tough out there. I have friends especially the ones that are in med level portraits and wedding that are really struggling right now.

cdifoto wrote in post #11498961
Sure. Not everyone will succeed. The reason is that people get into it thinking it's easy then find out it's not. That's how almost EVERY business is.

If you want to get rich easily, go to Wall Street. Oh wait.

Easy It took me 5 years to land one of my biggest clients. And then you shoot for a full day, back to office and process until the wee hours then back up and do it all again the next day for several weeks and a month later nothing but a couple small jobs 60-90 days on invoices and the mortgage is due every month and health insurance for me and the Mrs was right at 10K last year and we have a $2500 deductible. It aint easy but for me worth it?absolutely !!!!

Oh yeah, that too. I wish I knew that I'd be dealing with big companies with finance departments separate from the marketing department, where it takes forever to get a bill processed. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing half of the time so, Dianna in Marketing, when becky in finance gets a call from Mike the photographer looking for payment because it's late, tell her not to be surprised!

cdifoto wrote in post #11498725
CGI doesn't replace photography.

Cinema photography is simply 'moving pictures'.

And it has established itself as an alternative to 'people' being in (motion) pictures. It's been a progression from cartoons.

Look at how many aisles in a video store are dedicated to cartoons.

cdifoto wrote in post #11498725
We still have live movies and real photos of real people, and we'll have them for a long time.

I never claimed otherwise.
But there will be less of the traditional, and more of the future. Photography is not immune to it, no matter your reluctance to acknowledge it.

cdifoto wrote in post #11498725
You keep talking about all this software and technology that MAY come about

You didn't comprehend that it's been here for years.

A couple of Google clicks, and you'll see all the photorealistic renderings that are on brochures, instead of the traditional 'product shots' shot in studios by 'pros'.
I do them for clients.
I know what I'm talking about.

It's FAR less expensive to build a complete 3D model, and then be able to change colors, surfaces, lighting, backgrounds, angles and perspectives, opacity, on the fly with a couple of mouse clicks.

More and more product manufacturers are adding computer modelers to their staff, purchasing these softwares, and sending out staff for training.
I've sat next to them in training sessions, and heard about their industries, and the shifts to their companies more interested in getting 'high tech' and cutting costs by eliminating outsourcing.

Product photography being one of them.

cdifoto wrote in post #11498725
... but you ignore the human component entirely.

You mean, these clients that are demanding these things more and more, are not human?

cdifoto wrote in post #11498725
We're a long ass way from people buying 3D renders of themselves in lieu of an actual portrait ..

No.

You're mistaken. A client of mine is in orthotics, and scans people, to make molds for custom fit braces.
He sends me the scans, and we machine them out of urethane, or epoxy foams, that they use in vacuum forming the carbon fiber shells for their braces.

cdifoto wrote in post #11498725
You're also way off topic.

What I'm talking about is completely germane to the business of photography.

If you want to walk around with your fingers in your ears going " La, la, la, la , la I don't hear you", that's your prerogative.

Portrait photography and weddings are not the only kinds of photography, yanno.

There's product photography as well.

You can skip over my posts, and you certainly don't have to respond to them, being all indignant. It's wasted on me, and only serves to amuse me.

cdifoto wrote in post #11498725
Your initial premise was that photographers are no longer needed because anyone can take a good photo.

Rather than use your short term memory, and imagination, to attribute your words to mine, why don't you quote where I've said that?

Oh, ya, that's right, because then you'd have nothing to talk about...

cdifoto wrote in post #11498725
Now you're all about 3000 years into the future when everyone lives like the Matrix...virtual everything.

You obviously missed the part where I stated that these softwares have been around for a while now.
And they're only going to get more powerful.

You're obviously not very techincally inclined, or knowledgable at all. If you only knew what can be modeled, and simulated in the computer now, that used to take buildings, full of millions of dollars of infrastructure, equipment, and manpower to do, is now being done IN a computer (wind tunnels, for example). FEA (structural analysis, materials testing) is another.

And 'photos' as well...

You might not 'see' this. But I have.
Industrial trade shows are FULL of all this established, and rapidly progressing technology.

It'll spill over into ANY market that there's a buck to be made.

Photography is hardly immune to it. It's already begun to take it over, in some areas.

Product photography, home interior modeling, architecture, etc...

.

mikekelley wrote in post #11498991
Oh yeah, that too. I wish I knew that I'd be dealing with big companies with finance departments separate from the marketing department, where it takes forever to get a bill processed. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing half of the time so, Dianna in Marketing, when becky in finance gets a call from Mike the photographer looking for payment because it's late, tell her not to be surprised!

Even with a PO #. It was hard the first couple of years but it eventually catches up. What you do in Oct you get paid for in Dec (sounds good in theory)

MP4/8 wrote in post #11499014
You can skip over my posts, and you certainly don't have to respond to them

You're right. I don't have to respond to them. I'm going to stop as of right now.

cdifoto wrote in post #11499040
You're right. I don't have to respond to them. I'm going to stop as of right now.

Yeah it'll just raise its head in another thread I tried that

airfrogusmc wrote in post #11499044
Yeah it'll just raise its head in another thread I tried that

How did it go?