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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 09 Feb 2011 (Wednesday) 20:48
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YAAFT (Yet Another Auto Focus Thread)

 
snyderman
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Feb 11, 2011 07:23 |  #16

PP,

do yourself a huge favor by skipping all the potential 'user-error' fixes you'll read here the next few days and send your 7D to Canon Service for repair. It will come back with the focus issues corrected. From the responses I've already read:

1. lenses are front-focusing - no lens can front focus THAT much without being garbage on your 40D as well

2. too slow shutter speed - 1/25 on a tripod with remote shutter release is fine ... unless you're in an earthquake! Frankly, I would have used 1/200 to be safe however.

3. center point vs spot focus - I would agree with this because the 7D will choose to focus on subjects closer to the lens. But in your case the can and candle holders eliminate that variable.

4. Sharp, contrasty object. Nonsense ... it should focus accurately on your can. If it doesn't, something isn't right.

5. AV mode - bologna! It should focus in AV, TV, Manual, Auto, etc. If it doesn't, something isn't right.

Here's what I did after finally coming to the realization that my 7D had regular focus issues. Copy your test images to a CD and ship it (with your 7D) to Canon Service (I used NJ because it's closest to Ohio). Include your write-up on test methodology to document focus issues. You have plenty enough information for a technician to understand and recreate your out-of-focus sample images and correct the problem.

I listened to all the 'user-error' stuff here and was convinced it was me and not the camera. Wrong. After weeks of dealing with a camera that couldn't properly focus, I sent it to Canon Service. When it came back, the exact same focus tests yielded 24-25 perfectly focused shots. The only OOF shot was clearly and obviously my fault.

Turnaround time on Canon service was about 7 calendar days from my home to Canon and back.

Good luck and let us know how things turn out for you.

dave


Canon 5D2 > 35L-85L-135L

  
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apersson850
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Feb 11, 2011 08:13 as a reply to  @ snyderman's post |  #17

I have an EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, which doesn't focus properly on whichever camera I put it. But this one the micro adjustment in the 7d seems to cure perfectly. I had to set it to 12, to get the best result, but that seems to work in different light, distances and apertures.

My main AF issues in the beginning were related to two things:


  1. Slightly changed AF point selection algorithms, compared to previous EOS models.
  2. The AF points are HUGE. They look large in the viewfinder, but are MUCH bigger than that in reality. They may lock on to something well into the next point, if you are unlucky. Spot AF is a good thing, in many cases.
After taking about 1000 practice shots, I had AF figured out pretty well, and now I don't have any issues. I know how to tell the 7D to focus where I want it to, and it does that very well even when using the longer focal lengths of the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM, at full opening, for example.
If there are problems the camera may get different focusing results in different light, too.

Anders

  
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ppmax
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Feb 11, 2011 08:15 |  #18

Thanks for your reinforcement Dave. After taking some more 'round the house pics last night and wondering what I could be doing wrong, I've all but concluded to send it in. The biggest indicator for me is hearing the focus lock beep and then seeing that it hasnt locked on anything. I know the 7D is a different beast, but I know how to take a steady shot.

One question: I was thinking of just exchanging the camera for a new one (I purchased through Amazon). Granted, this leaves open the possibility that I'll get another one with a different issue, but is there any reason why I shouldn't do this? I'd rather save the trip to Canon in case all else fails ;)

Thanks again for taking the time to review the samples.

PP


Canon 1DX Mark II, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Mark II, EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4
Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF, 14mm f/2.8 ED AS IF UMC

  
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ppmax
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Feb 11, 2011 08:24 as a reply to  @ ppmax's post |  #19

I have an EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, which doesn't focus properly on whichever camera I put it.

It's definitely a tougher lens to use, especially at wide open. However, I've snapped some really nice/sharp frames with this lens of the 40D. When wide open or close to, the key for me is to use AIServo and a fast shutter. What I'm seeing with this lens on the 7D is...OOF even when I hear the focus lock beep--on or off a tripod.

I've got one more set of tests I want to run; this time using my 24-105L. I know that lens like the back of my hand and want to take more shots with it under controlled and "uncontrolled" conditions. I've had this lens for several years and know I can get 10 keepers out of 10 with static subjects with the 40D. Disclaimer: Im not claiming that these are good or interesting photographs...just properly focused ;)

Thanks again apersson850, I'll try some MA with the 50 before abandoning all hope.

PP


Canon 1DX Mark II, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Mark II, EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4
Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF, 14mm f/2.8 ED AS IF UMC

  
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apersson850
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Feb 11, 2011 08:33 as a reply to  @ ppmax's post |  #20

OK, good. The 50mm I have I've tried on my 7D, another 7D, my 40D and a friends' 60D. With micro adjust, where available, set to zero, it doesn't get it right on any camera.

Note that if the AF is off, you still get the focus confirmation beep (if you have it enabled), since the camera can't see anything but what the AF sensor sees, and that's the one that gets it wrong to begin with.

Do you get the same result with your 50mm, regardless of whether you come from a closer or farther away setting on the focus dial? I'm fishing for if there's too much play in something, so that it doesn't get a consistent result when the focus command is sent from the camera to the lens.


Anders

  
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ppmax
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Feb 11, 2011 08:35 |  #21

apersson850--one quick question. Can you post a 100% crop of a shot at f/1.4 with your 50mm, possibly something with backlight, or a highlight, and some nice sharp edges? I'd like to compare the CA between your lens and mine...

thx much--
PP


Canon 1DX Mark II, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Mark II, EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4
Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF, 14mm f/2.8 ED AS IF UMC

  
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apersson850
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Feb 11, 2011 08:39 as a reply to  @ ppmax's post |  #22

Too late to get any shot with any significant light in today. Tomorrow I can, unless I forget...

Meanwhile, I can post a shot that shows how my 7D autofocuses, albeit with a different lens than the one in question here. This result I don't complain about.


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Anders

  
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ppmax
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Feb 11, 2011 08:40 |  #23

Do you get the same result with your 50mm, regardless of whether you come from a closer or farther away setting on the focus dial? I'm fishing for if there's too much play in something, so that it doesn't get a consistent result when the focus command is sent from the camera to the lens.

Yes--I've tried dialing the focus near and to infinity, then engaging AF (both single point and spot AF in the center position).

FWIW: I've definitely achieved in-focus shots with the 7D with this lens...but it's just so "random." That's really what's driving me crazy ;)

PP


Canon 1DX Mark II, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Mark II, EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4
Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF, 14mm f/2.8 ED AS IF UMC

  
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Crafty
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Feb 11, 2011 08:43 |  #24

Keep us updated ppmax, will be interested to see what they say is wrong.


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snyderman
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Feb 11, 2011 10:27 |  #25

ppmax wrote in post #11821631 (external link)
Thanks for your reinforcement Dave. After taking some more 'round the house pics last night and wondering what I could be doing wrong, I've all but concluded to send it in. The biggest indicator for me is hearing the focus lock beep and then seeing that it hasnt locked on anything. I know the 7D is a different beast, but I know how to take a steady shot.

One question: I was thinking of just exchanging the camera for a new one (I purchased through Amazon). Granted, this leaves open the possibility that I'll get another one with a different issue, but is there any reason why I shouldn't do this? I'd rather save the trip to Canon in case all else fails ;)

Thanks again for taking the time to review the samples.

PP

If you purchased it from Amazon and can ask for a replacement, I would personally go that route first. You will likely get a good copy that works very well. The percentage of 7Ds that misfocus regularly has to be pretty low.

dave


Canon 5D2 > 35L-85L-135L

  
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ppmax
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Feb 12, 2011 00:38 |  #26

Blarmy! One moment I'm pulling my hair out, the next moment I cant miss. Strapped on the L lens, tack sharp time after time with no misses. Snap in the Tokina...hit, miss, hit, miss, miss, hit. On goes the 50: Can't miss. And all my shot tonight are in low light, no flash. This is crazy because all my test shots that I posted were with the 50, and my hit rate was like 20%. I also shot with the 50 in bright sun--a ton of misses. Why is it spot on tonight, indoors, with crappy light?

What I have noticed, is that when it misses, I definitely do get focus lock light and the beep. But the focus point and actual point of focus is ballparks away. Something is definitely strange. It's like the camera somehow switches to 19 Point AF even tho I'm shooting Single-Point.

Oh well...I have a week or so before I have to make a call and keep it or send it in....


Canon 1DX Mark II, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Mark II, EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4
Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF, 14mm f/2.8 ED AS IF UMC

  
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ppmax
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Feb 13, 2011 16:39 |  #27

For those out there with 7D's, how "repeatable" is the accuracy of the AF system for you? I did some MA adjustment on my 50, and shot a bunch of my 9 month old this morning and got 100% keepers (judging just by focus intent).

One thing I did notice: when focusing on the nearest of my daughters eyes I noticed I was getting about 1/3inch back focus (using Spot AF and Single Point AF)...such that the farther eye was in tight focus. This is definitely strange, because I had done MA on this lens before (using live view and the contrast-based AF). Could this be focus accuracy "drift" at different distances....or is the AF accuracy not that repeatable? Any similar experiences? Do people do MA with the Phase detect AF?

Instead of returning this body outright, im thinking about ordering another 7D and comparing them, then returning one for a refund. I love this camera but am frustrated by the on again off again AF experience I'm having.

Also , I've definitely learned a lot this past week about where I need to improve my skills. ...this camera seems to want slightly faster shutter (to ensuand higher res images have zero motion blur) and slightly brighter exposure (to keep noise at bay) than my 40D. With great (hi res) power comes great responsibility (more sound technique).


Canon 1DX Mark II, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Mark II, EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4
Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF, 14mm f/2.8 ED AS IF UMC

  
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jaycky
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Feb 13, 2011 18:29 |  #28

i am interested in where this thread goes

I find rapid shooting i fail
Taking my time i get a good outcome out of the 7D
I note that if the settings are not proper the fail rate will be high.
I have been following the 7D owners who shoot birds and they have settings that are spot on with no fail rate...
Not pointing the finger at anyone here could be camera?
But in my cases its the user error


What are you guys doing after picture in the computer as well? This is the other half to bring out the most of your image?


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http://www.flickr.com/​photos/52633882@N07/ (external link)
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ppmax
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Feb 13, 2011 19:13 |  #29

Thanks for the reply Jaycky. I'm sure my problems will involve either 50% user error or 100% ;)

How long have you had your 7D for? If you strap on a fast lens, wide open, and take 5 pics of the same thing (not with high-speed drive or AI Servo....5 single shots where you have to refocus) does your AF refocus to same focus point consistently? I took some frames very carefully of my wife's eyes (she was still, on the couch, watching Opera!), wide open, using Spot AF, it seems like my camera finds it, misses it, finds it, misses, etc. FWIW I was careful to line up the Spot in the viewfinder right on her eyeball in the same place each time.

I just dont know what "normal" behavior is. All I do know is that my results are inconsistent...and I'm being "vewy vewy careful" with my technique.

PS: You score that tokina yet? It's a tad soft, but having that wide of a lens on a crop body is awesome.

PP


Canon 1DX Mark II, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS USM Mark II, EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 50mm f/1.4
Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 AS IF, 14mm f/2.8 ED AS IF UMC

  
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jaycky
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Feb 13, 2011 20:06 |  #30

ppmax wrote in post #11837057 (external link)
Thanks for the reply Jaycky. I'm sure my problems will involve either 50% user error or 100% ;)

How long have you had your 7D for? If you strap on a fast lens, wide open, and take 5 pics of the same thing (not with high-speed drive or AI Servo....5 single shots where you have to refocus) does your AF refocus to same focus point consistently? I took some frames very carefully of my wife's eyes (she was still, on the couch, watching Opera!), wide open, using Spot AF, it seems like my camera finds it, misses it, finds it, misses, etc. FWIW I was careful to line up the Spot in the viewfinder right on her eyeball in the same place each time.

I just dont know what "normal" behavior is. All I do know is that my results are inconsistent...and I'm being "vewy vewy careful" with my technique.

PS: You score that tokina yet? It's a tad soft, but having that wide of a lens on a crop body is awesome.

PP

7D since last august year first one i got was waiting on my adpaters and mf lens so only had a 10-20mm canon that was using. Then realized it had bad hotpixels so it went back...
Wished i was thinking when they did an exchange i should have just cashed it in for the 5dmII...
Since this new body i have been using as much af glass as possible trying everything out.
My camera had issues like this with certain lens's. The tamron 17-35 its 2.8-4. this thing is spot on had used a buddies prime 2.8 and it was hit and miss..
I wondered if it was me or the camera still wondering this... I will run a test right now brb


5DM2 /grip Lots Of L's
measurbating f-stops
http://www.flickr.com/​photos/52633882@N07/ (external link)
http://about.me/jbmpho​tos (external link)
http://photobyfish.tum​blr.com/archive (external link)

  
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YAAFT (Yet Another Auto Focus Thread)
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