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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Critique Corner 
Thread started 11 Feb 2011 (Friday) 23:08
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On camera flash

 
supralx570
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Feb 11, 2011 23:08 |  #1

Hey guys I would like c&c on this pic. I recently got a 580exii flash and I'm trying to figure out how to use it. Any input will be greatly appreciated it.
Thanks

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ISO 1000
F4
1/200s
84mm

5D MK III; 24-70 L 2.8 II USM; 70-200 L 2.8 USM II; 580 EX II

  
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vk2gwk
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Feb 12, 2011 02:30 |  #2

This result is not bad. Actually.. reasonably good. No harsh shadows or highlights. Only thing is that the spotlights in the eyes are not very prominent.
When I shoot people (or kids...) I always use the "bounce flash" method with the little white card pulled out.


My name is Henk. and I believe "It is all in the eye of the beholder....."
Image Editing is allowed. Please explain what you did!
Canon R5, 5D MkIV 5DMkIII, 50D, 24-105/1:4 + RF70-200mm F/2.8L IS USM + 100-400/4-5.6L IS USM + 50mm 1.4 USM + Sigma 150-600mm Sports + 580EXII + 430EX + YN568EXII, triggers, reflectors, umbrellas and some more bits and pieces...
Photos on: Flickr! (external link) and on my own web site. (external link)

  
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supralx570
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Feb 12, 2011 10:22 |  #3

Henk, thanks buddy. I'm glad you think it came out ok, I appreciate your input. As
Far as the highlights in the eyes, Theres def room for improvement


5D MK III; 24-70 L 2.8 II USM; 70-200 L 2.8 USM II; 580 EX II

  
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staticuxo
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Feb 12, 2011 11:26 |  #4

that came out really smooth! no harsh shadows at all.. i just got the 430EX II last night and posted some photos in the critique section, too.. still learning how to bounce flash well.


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davidcoelho
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Feb 12, 2011 12:33 |  #5

On camera flash is such a taboo thing to do, for me at least, but this shot came out well.


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bobobird
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Feb 12, 2011 12:44 |  #6

davidcoelho wrote in post #11828914 (external link)
On camera flash is such a taboo thing to do, for me at least, but this shot came out well.

I don't get taboo bit.

How else would one do it outside of a controlled environment ??

Oh btw, nice pic, very nice angle. Is there something that can be done to the reddish part on the jawline?




  
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geesr
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Feb 12, 2011 13:47 |  #7

Maybe you should shot at ISO 100 or was that a typo? ISO 1000 is kinda useless with flash. Did you use a diffuser? I find diffusers wash out colours a bit and as long as the ceiling is flat white, I leave the diffuser off. on-camera flash with 580 EX - nothing wrong with this, but off-camera flash is something else and provides, to me, more control.

Otherwise, your composition is great!


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davidcoelho
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Feb 12, 2011 16:30 |  #8

bobobird wrote in post #11828965 (external link)
I don't get taboo bit.

How else would one do it outside of a controlled environment ??

Oh btw, nice pic, very nice angle. Is there something that can be done to the reddish part on the jawline?

Typically I find that on camera flash (this photo is an exception to the norm) tends to create unflattering pictures do to washing out the subject and creating harsh shadows, even with diffusers.

Sometimes bouncing it off walls or ceilings help but I still think the flash mounted on the camera is something to use as a last resort.

I am just an enthusiast so I know my opinion is not worth all that much...just my thoughts.

Even getting a cheap cable and moving the flash off the camera can help.


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bobobird
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Feb 12, 2011 17:29 |  #9

Thanks David.

I am no expert either but outdoors does present some challenges. Indoors where one has some control over the environment would be much much easier.

Btw, if you are interested, one of the Kelby training videos demonstrated very well the use of on-camera flash. The instructor used a darkish church and a simulated wedding shoot to show off the techniques. Quite good in my opinion.




  
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vk2gwk
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Feb 12, 2011 17:36 |  #10

One of the reasons that there is no noticeable shadow in this photo is probably because the flash did not fire or register properly.
With 1000 ISO and F4 and normal ambient light you won't need the flash. With 1/200 the High Speed Sync mode should be switched on. Otherwise the flash might flash outisde the curtain opening....

I disagree with people that consider "on camera" flash a taboo. May be for posed studio portrait photography, but in most other situations you can just have your flash mounted on the hot shoe. How would press photographers otherwise do their work?
There are several ways to avoid harsh shadows: "bounce" flash (but watch out for a change in colour temp. when the bouncing surfuce is not pure white). Another way is a diffuser - the bigger the better. I am using a tupperware box with a hole (size of my flash) cut in the bottom and a white lid. About 9 x 9 cm (3.5" x 3.5"). Did not cost me anything and works better than the small diffusers that are on the market.

There are several good tutorials on this forum about the use of flash. Read them!


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My name is Henk. and I believe "It is all in the eye of the beholder....."
Image Editing is allowed. Please explain what you did!
Canon R5, 5D MkIV 5DMkIII, 50D, 24-105/1:4 + RF70-200mm F/2.8L IS USM + 100-400/4-5.6L IS USM + 50mm 1.4 USM + Sigma 150-600mm Sports + 580EXII + 430EX + YN568EXII, triggers, reflectors, umbrellas and some more bits and pieces...
Photos on: Flickr! (external link) and on my own web site. (external link)

  
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supralx570
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Feb 12, 2011 18:08 |  #11

Thanks everyone for your input. I did use high ISO with the intention of capturing ambient light, I wanted to use a slower shutter speed but was afraid of motion. I also did bounce the flash of the ceiling at a 45 degree angle with no diffuser. I used the flash on ETTL mode and -1/3. I also tried the same shot with the same setting minus the flash but that resulted in a suboptimal underexposed image. My goal was to make the flash as unnoticeable as possible.

Henk, what you mentioned in your last post does make sense but I'm also trying to figure out why my exposure was underexposed with the same settings but without utilizing the flash. Oh, I should also mention that I had the flash set at second curtain


5D MK III; 24-70 L 2.8 II USM; 70-200 L 2.8 USM II; 580 EX II

  
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vk2gwk
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Feb 12, 2011 18:26 |  #12

supralx570 wrote in post #11830628 (external link)
...... Oh, I should also mention that I had the flash set at second curtain.....

Second curtain is mostly used to catch the "trail" of moving objects with the flash firing just before the curtain closes. Not very useful for portrait photography.

I think in your case the flash fired at very low output. You set - 1/3 flash exposure and with the high ISO and the wide aperture the ETTL system calculated that you only needed minimal flash. I think that worked well in this situation - apart from the higher noise level because of the higher ISO. That depends a little bit on the camera model. It would be less noticeable in a 5D2 compared with a 400D.
What camera are you using?


My name is Henk. and I believe "It is all in the eye of the beholder....."
Image Editing is allowed. Please explain what you did!
Canon R5, 5D MkIV 5DMkIII, 50D, 24-105/1:4 + RF70-200mm F/2.8L IS USM + 100-400/4-5.6L IS USM + 50mm 1.4 USM + Sigma 150-600mm Sports + 580EXII + 430EX + YN568EXII, triggers, reflectors, umbrellas and some more bits and pieces...
Photos on: Flickr! (external link) and on my own web site. (external link)

  
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supralx570
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Feb 12, 2011 18:37 |  #13

Henk I'm using 7D and the shot was taken with a 24-105 1:4L IS. I just checked the settings on my camera and now it seems as if I had change to first curtain but thought I had left it on second.....hmmm now I'm confused.


5D MK III; 24-70 L 2.8 II USM; 70-200 L 2.8 USM II; 580 EX II

  
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vk2gwk
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Feb 12, 2011 19:04 |  #14

At 1/200 second you are still within the max sync. speed for the 7D. If you want to go higher with your shutter speed you should switch "High Speed Sync" on on your flash. Otherwise you'll get a narrower or wider dark section on your shots - the wider the higher the shutterspeed - try that out for yourself... :)

Your 7D has also good "low noise" characteristics at higher ISO values.

For casual portrait shots a shutterspeed of 1/60 - 1/100 should be OK. Put your camera on manual, set the aperture you want for the required depth of field, set 1/60 sec shutterspeed and auto ETTL on the flash. That usually results in nicely exposed shots.
When you bounce you should add +1 to +1 2/3 on your flash exposure correction setting. When using a diffuser or the "white card without a bouncing surface (like in the open air) I use +2 FEC.
Shoot in RAW (always) and in Photoshop ARC you can correct the exposure easily. It is always better to slightly over expose than under expose.
Just a few of the practical tips of how I am doing it. I am not an expert or pro but reasonably experienced.


My name is Henk. and I believe "It is all in the eye of the beholder....."
Image Editing is allowed. Please explain what you did!
Canon R5, 5D MkIV 5DMkIII, 50D, 24-105/1:4 + RF70-200mm F/2.8L IS USM + 100-400/4-5.6L IS USM + 50mm 1.4 USM + Sigma 150-600mm Sports + 580EXII + 430EX + YN568EXII, triggers, reflectors, umbrellas and some more bits and pieces...
Photos on: Flickr! (external link) and on my own web site. (external link)

  
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supralx570
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Feb 12, 2011 19:39 |  #15

Thanks for the advice Henk, I really appreciate it. I will def be playing around with the settings some more and will be checking out the "High Speed Sync" function on the 580.
I'm pretty happy with the 7D and I feel like it can push higher ISO settings with minimal/acceptable noise.

Randy


5D MK III; 24-70 L 2.8 II USM; 70-200 L 2.8 USM II; 580 EX II

  
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