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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
Thread started 10 Feb 2011 (Thursday) 23:04
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Indoor Soccer

 
sfinkernagel
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Feb 13, 2011 08:34 |  #16

I am fond of the back * button- once I started using it, I found that separating the focus from the shutter felt very natural. As we noted though- that's a personal preference. I can't make a blanket statement that the * button is better for every person shooting action, and I don't think that advice should be offered to those looking for guidance.

Just to be clear....




  
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figo
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Feb 13, 2011 14:42 |  #17

Thanks to everyone who replied. I've learnt a lot - to take up golf, it's all easier!!!


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kfyount
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Feb 13, 2011 16:09 |  #18

sfinkernagel wrote in post #11833669 (external link)
I am fond of the back * button- once I started using it, I found that separating the focus from the shutter felt very natural. As we noted though- that's a personal preference. I can't make a blanket statement that the * button is better for every person shooting action, and I don't think that advice should be offered to those looking for guidance.

Just to be clear....

I agree that maybe it should not be offered to imply that it is the solution to every issue while shooting action. I've found that it is good for action situations where the subject is moving and you need to be ready to hit the shutter at the "perfect" moment but can't predict when that moment is going to happen.

After practice with back button focus, I've found that panning technique and other auto focus issues (low light focusing, etc.) are also things that can help when shooting action.

figo wrote in post #11835523 (external link)
Thanks to everyone who replied. I've learnt a lot - to take up golf, it's all easier!!!

Figo, I know how you feel. I tried golf a few times - just enough to know that I can never play as well as I would want to. At least, with photography I can imagine that someday I might be able to become good enough to satisfy myself. Besides, I can practice shooting anywhere and it is doesn't cost me any green fees. :cool:


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namasste
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Feb 14, 2011 10:40 |  #19

kfyount wrote in post #11836051 (external link)
I agree that maybe it should not be offered to imply that it is the solution to every issue while shooting action. I've found that it is good for action situations where the subject is moving and you need to be ready to hit the shutter at the "perfect" moment but can't predict when that moment is going to happen.

After practice with back button focus, I've found that panning technique and other auto focus issues (low light focusing, etc.) are also things that can help when shooting action.

Its not just about focusing...consider a soccer match, late in the afternoon, shadows falling across parts of the pitch...having your exposure set independent of your focus (especially when tracking in AI Servo) is critical to getting the image you want. This is VERY difficult to impossible in a standard AF button configuration since you are locking focus and exposure at the same time.


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lax76
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Feb 14, 2011 10:52 |  #20

namasste wrote in post #11840765 (external link)
Its not just about focusing...consider a soccer match, late in the afternoon, shadows falling across parts of the pitch...having your exposure set independent of your focus (especially when tracking in AI Servo) is critical to getting the image you want. This is VERY difficult to impossible in a standard AF button configuration since you are locking focus and exposure at the same time.

namasste,
I just checked out your web page. I think your photos are spectacular. As a new sports photographer I am really interested in what you mentioned above. Can you describe what you mean for a newbe? I am constantly struggling to get crisp sharp focused sports photos. Thank you.




  
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namasste
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Feb 14, 2011 11:16 |  #21

lax76 wrote in post #11840843 (external link)
namasste,
I just checked out your web page. I think your photos are spectacular. As a new sports photographer I am really interested in what you mentioned above. Can you describe what you mean for a newbe? I am constantly struggling to get crisp sharp focused sports photos. Thank you.

thanks, that's very kind of you to say. basically, when you use the half push (what I call standard) setup you are locking both your exposure and your focus at the same time. In AI servo (which you should be using to track moving objects) you keep this depressed until you finally depress the button fully to release the shutter. Enter the problem...when you initially started to track your subject, they were in shadow and thus your exposure would be for shadow, when you finally released the shutter, the subject had moved back into daylight and guess what, your image is completely blown out. By separating the buttons, you can track your subject with AF through changing light and the exposure is not set until you actually depress the shutter button. This matters in Av mode (or Tv if you use that which I never do for sports) where the camera is adjusting exposure for you based on aperture set. In manual mode, its irrelevant but many sports shooters use Av in mixed light to avoid having to constantly adjust settings during a match.

Hope that helps and if not, post back and I (or someone else here) will take another stab at it.


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lax76
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Feb 14, 2011 11:26 as a reply to  @ namasste's post |  #22

Thank you. That actually does help and I do shoot in AV mode and I also "track" the subject in "standard mode" with the button half depressed. Do I actually have to push the * button AND the shutter button at the same time on my 40D. Sorry for the dumb questions. Thanks.




  
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namasste
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Feb 14, 2011 11:51 |  #23

lax76 wrote in post #11841046 (external link)
Thank you. That actually does help and I do shoot in AV mode and I also "track" the subject in "standard mode" with the button half depressed. Do I actually have to push the * button AND the shutter button at the same time on my 40D. Sorry for the dumb questions. Thanks.

no worries at all. once you've set the custom function to move focus to the *, you simply track by using the * to lock focus and hold that down as you track your subject. when you are ready for the capture, fully depress the shutter release. There are two schools of thought on whether to keep the * pressed while releasing the shutter and frankly, I have no idea which is correct. For me, I leave it pushed while I release to shutter since I assume my subject is going to continue moving while I am releasing it.


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kfyount
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Feb 14, 2011 13:26 as a reply to  @ lax76's post |  #24

namasste wrote in post #11840765 (external link)
Its not just about focusing...consider a soccer match, late in the afternoon, shadows falling across parts of the pitch...having your exposure set independent of your focus (especially when tracking in AI Servo) is critical to getting the image you want. This is VERY difficult to impossible in a standard AF button configuration since you are locking focus and exposure at the same time.

Scott, I too thank you for pointing that out. For me it is an "added bonus". I never had problems with wrong exposure but I can understand how that can happen. For some reason the focus issue was always my main problem. Still working on my "back button" technique as well as panning technique. It's good to realize that I'll probabaly have less shots with wrong exposure becasue I locked it at the wrong place.


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namasste
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Feb 14, 2011 13:54 |  #25

kfyount wrote in post #11841758 (external link)
Scott, I too thank you for pointing that out. For me it is an "added bonus". I never had problems with wrong exposure but I can understand how that can happen. For some reason the focus issue was always my main problem. Still working on my "back button" technique as well as panning technique. It's good to realize that I'll probabaly have less shots with wrong exposure becasue I locked it at the wrong place.

you bet Kevin, that's what POTN is all about man!


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kfyount
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Feb 14, 2011 14:17 |  #26

Newby2Cam wrote in post #11841556 (external link)
Also keep in mind what FL you are shooting at. You don't necessarily need to have the focus point on the head for longer FL.

Longer FL (let's say 200 in this case), even if you focus on the head, there is a good chance the body will also be in focus (greater DOF). And vice versa.....if you focus on the body, the head could be in focus as well.
Shorter FL (let's say 70 in this case), you will more than likely need to focus on the head if you want the head to be sharper (shallower DOF at shorter FL)

I'm not sure I follow this. Are you talking about using different FL to fill the frame the same (thus, directly related to subject distance)? If so, it seems to me that with the same f-stop, the DOF will be the same.

I used one of the on-line DOF calculators and got the following results:

70mm, f2.8, subject distance of 10 feet: total DOF is 0.65

200mm, f2.8, subject distance of 28.6 feet: total DOF is 0.65

Why did I choose 28.6 feet - I assumed if you frame the shot at 10 feet with 70mm, then this is the distance that would get the same frame at 200mm.

I think there is more to the DOF than only the FL you're shooting with. I was aware that faster apatures (lower numbers) give thinner DOF and vice versa, but like I said, I'm not aware of a general rule about FL.


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lax76
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Feb 14, 2011 14:49 as a reply to  @ kfyount's post |  #27

Okay, So what technique do you suggest to use both buttons and should I keep both pushed at the same time while I shoot the photo? If this helps me get crisp clear photos I am thrilled. Thank you.




  
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kfyount
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Feb 14, 2011 16:26 |  #28

lax76 wrote in post #11842349 (external link)
Okay, So what technique do you suggest to use both buttons and should I keep both pushed at the same time while I shoot the photo? If this helps me get crisp clear photos I am thrilled. Thank you.

First, make sure you set the custom function to "move focus" - this doesn't work if you try it on the default setting. Your manual covers this and describes the available settings for your camera.

Then, you focus with your thumb on the back button (with AI servo AF on for action). Then when the moment comes, you take the shot with the normal shutter button.

As Scott pointed out, you can lock the exposure with the shutter pressed half-way. But to be honest, I think that is more advanced. I am still learning and practicing focus with the thumb and concentrating on catching the shot at the right moment.

It ain't the magic bullet, but I tried it over the weekend and I feel like I got a few more usable shots. Since it is different, it will take a while for me to get used to.


Kevin
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