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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 07 Mar 2011 (Monday) 00:25
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What is truth?

 
birdfromboat
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Mar 07, 2011 09:46 |  #16

If a photon bounces off of a tree in the wilderness and no one has their shutter open so it can be converted to 1's and 0's by a cmos sensor, was there light?

photons are real in the sense that they occur in nature, the tree is real in the sense that it occurred in nature, the reflection of the photon by the tree is real because it also occurred without any help from any unnatural forces. After that, all bets are off.

You can set your camera for "faithful" color representation, shoot at f32 for infinite depth of feild with no blurring of anything, and go straight from the card to the printer with all image enhancement and correction software turned off. It doesn't matter if you were using the "purest" form of recording and storing and printing the image you can dream up, truth got left behind when the sensor turned the photon into a digital representation.

Intent is another thing, and if thats what we are going to spend our time debating, we will need to send someone out for pizza.


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airfrogusmc
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Mar 07, 2011 11:32 |  #17

birdfromboat wrote in post #11972620 (external link)
If a photon bounces off of a tree in the wilderness and no one has their shutter open so it can be converted to 1's and 0's by a cmos sensor, was there light?

photons are real in the sense that they occur in nature, the tree is real in the sense that it occurred in nature, the reflection of the photon by the tree is real because it also occurred without any help from any unnatural forces. After that, all bets are off.

You can set your camera for "faithful" color representation, shoot at f32 for infinite depth of feild with no blurring of anything, and go straight from the card to the printer with all image enhancement and correction software turned off. It doesn't matter if you were using the "purest" form of recording and storing and printing the image you can dream up, truth got left behind when the sensor turned the photon into a digital representation.

Intent is another thing, and if thats what we are going to spend our time debating, we will need to send someone out for pizza.

Thin crust New York or deep dish Chicago? And don't forget the beer;)




  
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nicksan
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Mar 07, 2011 11:54 |  #18

airfrogusmc wrote in post #11973224 (external link)
Thin crust New York or deep dish Chicago? And don't forget the beer;)

New York style pizza...ALWAYS!

Now that's the truth! ;):lol:;)




  
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airfrogusmc
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Mar 07, 2011 12:00 |  #19

nicksan wrote in post #11973339 (external link)
New York style pizza...ALWAYS!

Now that's the truth! ;):lol:;)

Thats so ignorant, its deep dish from Lou Malnati's all the way :lol::lol:.
(its a joke Nick) :D

I actually love both. Don't let the deep dish snobs know that though. :lol: I'll get flamed.

Now thats the truth...

or better yet "you can't handle the truth"




  
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jetcode
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Mar 07, 2011 12:20 |  #20

Truth is relative to reference and if the reference is what the eye sees then truth in image may be aligned to that if all parties are in agreement to the reference. However this notion is somewhat nebulous because some people are color blind, some have good or poor vision, and who knows for sure that we all see light in the same way, or that we evaluate what we sense the same way.

In terms of artistry truth can be grossly divided into literal and not literal expression and within these expressions may exist sub-levels of truth and illusion; a woman in mens clothing for instance, a modified surrealist image as compared to a literal time slice of a barber shop, and on and on.

So in fact for me the reference for truth in all forms is relative. It can become a endless circle of defining reference and determining what is and what isn't truth.

Perhaps that's why photography works as a visual medium for so many. From pure literal to every shade of mystery and illusion and certainly with today's technology that case is never more true.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Mar 07, 2011 12:45 as a reply to  @ jetcode's post |  #21

"One should not only photograph things for what they are but for what else they are." - Minor White

"A thing is not what you say it is or what you photograph it to be or what you paint it to be or what you sculpt it to be. Words, photographs, paintings, and sculptures are symbols of what you see, think, and feel things to be, but they are not the things themselves." - Wynn Bullock

"What you see is real - but only on the particular level to which you've developed your sense of seeing. You can expand your reality by developing new ways of perceiving." - Wynn Bullock




  
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MikeFairbanks
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Mar 07, 2011 13:41 |  #22

When I was a teenager I worked at Jack-in-the-Box (kind of an imitation McDonald's).

I argued with my boss about the Supertaco. I loved the Supertaco (although it's horribly bad for you).

My boss let us use about one ounce of lettuce. We had to actually measure it. I had been in the habit of liberally adding ingredients to make it a feast, provided it could slip in the bag. Why? Because that's what the picture showed.

The way the manual said to make it did not match the photo.


Thank you. bw!

  
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MikeFairbanks
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Mar 07, 2011 13:42 |  #23

nicksan wrote in post #11973339 (external link)
New York style pizza...ALWAYS!

Now that's the truth! ;):lol:;)

Not always. Often, yes, but not always.

Chicago makes great pizza.


Thank you. bw!

  
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whuband
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Mar 07, 2011 13:49 as a reply to  @ airfrogusmc's post |  #24

Photographing ten people who are standing around at a rally of some sort is "truth". Staging ten people with signs in vociferous disagreement with a speaker is a lie, but it sells.

Oversaturated images are a lie, but viewers think they are beautiful.

Rendering natural skin tones on a stage performer lit by a purple light is a lie, but we do it anyway.

I don't do any HDR, but if properly done I think it is closer to the truth (what the human eye actually sees) than many one shot landscape images.

If a non photographer says it looks bogus, then the photo is probably a lie.


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RDKirk
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Mar 07, 2011 14:03 |  #25

All photographs are accurate. None of them is the truth.
Richard Avedon

Avedon was probably speaking of unmanipulated photographs but even the "straightest" of photographs still represents the photographer's deliberate choice of timing and framing--by which he controls both angels and demons.


TANSTAAFL--The Only Unbreakable Rule in Photography

  
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ni$mo350
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Mar 07, 2011 14:44 |  #26

I'm the worst kind because I don't know when one stops and another begins so I end up over doing either one. Either way the end result is what matter whether a realistic shot or manipulation to an extreme as long as I like it..


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vipergts831
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Mar 07, 2011 16:51 |  #27

nicksan wrote in post #11973339 (external link)
New York style pizza...ALWAYS!

Now that's the truth! ;):lol:;)

Second this!!!


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airfrogusmc
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Mar 07, 2011 16:54 |  #28

vipergts831 wrote in post #11975325 (external link)
Second this!!!

Its a lie I tell ya, an out right lie.:p




  
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Clean ­ Gene
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Mar 08, 2011 00:19 |  #29

whuband wrote in post #11974055 (external link)
Photographing ten people who are standing around at a rally of some sort is "truth". Staging ten people with signs in vociferous disagreement with a speaker is a lie, but it sells.

Doesn't that depend on what PURPOSE the photograph is intended to serve, though?

I guess maybe that just indicates what you think "truth" actually IS. But...how much difference is there?

I'm going to exclude photojournalism, because I've never studied that and that's really the one thing that scares me. That when I eventually do dabble with it, I'm gonna have a DAMNED hard time of discerning what is truth and what isn't.

But outside of such a context (such as photojournalism or documentary photography...and even there a certain amount of prejudice and bias is allowed), then how is staging the shot with actors fundamentally any different than using a filter or using a particular shutter speed or aperture value? Aren't ALL of those things simply MANIPULATIONS of a larger truth utilized in order to get the artist's point across?

Couldn't hiring actors to stage a fake rally ALSO be "true", so long as the "purpose" of the photograph wasn't specidifically to document what happened at a REAL rally?




  
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RDKirk
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Mar 08, 2011 07:23 as a reply to  @ Clean Gene's post |  #30

Couldn't hiring actors to stage a fake rally ALSO be "true", so long as the "purpose" of the photograph wasn't specidifically to document what happened at a REAL rally?

Over in another forum, a photographer asks about sports magazine cover shot he's being criticized about as being "set up."

The cover and articles are to illustrate an article about a breed of gun dog that is much smaller than the common retriever, but retrieves just as heartily and well. The photographer owns these dogs, and the shots he took were during an actual hunting trip. The cover shows the dog splashing through water toward the camera with a duck in its mouth.

The duck is real, and it's a duck that the photographer had actually shot during that hunting trip, and that the dog had actually retrieved. However, for that photograph the photographer had tossed the dead duck back out into the lake and had the dog retrieve it again (because it's fairly hard to shoot a duck and be set up to photograph the retrieval properly at the same time).

So, yes, it was set up. But as an illustration of an article about the characteristics of the breed, is it a lie?


TANSTAAFL--The Only Unbreakable Rule in Photography

  
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What is truth?
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