50D or 1D Mark IV?

Though a great camera for its time, my 20D is starting to show its age. I photograph local musical performers in low light situations using very fast prime lenses. (See my gear list). I almost always shoot at ISO 3200 and very wide apertures, normally 1.8 or 2.0, sometimes as wide as 1.4. Sometimes the light is so poor that I shoot at "cheat ISO 6400," that is, at 3200 I exposure compensate down, deliberately underexposing in order to get a decent shutter speed, and then fix the exposure in Photoshop. It's a desperate tactic, but it's made me able to get shots I would not otherwise have been able to. I've become skilled at NoiseNinja and other programs for cleaning up noise in post production. I would kill to get a camera that has native and usable ISO 6400 or higher, even if I needed to reduce noise in post production. My 20D's "cheat ISO 6400" is often too noisy to clean up in PP. I'm also frustrated by its lack of ability to save quickly to a CF card. I like to burst when photographing drummers because they move so fast bursting enables me to capture just the right moment. However, the 20D will only save to a CF card at 12 MB/s. If I'm shooting RAW+Jpeg as I prefer to, I end up waiting and missing shots while the images save to the CF card. I therefore only do my drummer bursts in Jpeg and then miss out on the advantage of having the RAW files in PP. Also, the only reason I can get by with the 20D's small LCD screen is the fact that, at 46, I'm blessed with super closeup vision (aka nearsightedness). If I need to see a shot I've taken, I can lift up my glasses to see it. However, I can forget about wearing my contact lenses to a shoot. It would be really nice to have a larger LCD screen so that I don't have to lift up my glasses to see it, and I can wear my contacts to a shoot if I feel like it.

I've done my research and know that the 1D Mark IV is my dream. It would be a massive upgrade to my 20D, and easily take care of every one of the issues I speak of above. However, at its price I'll have to wait for it. I don't have the bucks yet. The cheapest I've found it is for $4900. I did see it for $4400 grey market, but I'm afraid to do that. I want a real warranty.

Why would I even consider a 50D when the 1D 4 is clearly the superior camera? Price. I've already got about $1800 saved up, and the 50D can be obtained for $800. That's extremely reasonable. I'm thinking of a 50D upgrade as an interim one. I would still have that 1K left over and can keep saving up for the 1D m4. In the meantime I'll have an upgrade to my 20D that includes native ISO 6400. Is the 50D's 6400 decent -- meaning I can get a good image after noise reduction in post production? It will also do ISO 12800, but I don't have very high hopes for that. My lenses are fast. I don't think I'll even need 12800. What about its speed in saving to a CF card? I looked through its specs (http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Canon_EOS_50D) and didn't find any info on that. Its LCD screen will be a big upgrade over my 20D.

A lot of people have steered me in the direction of the 7D. At 1500 I could also get it right away, but that nearly wipes out my 1D m4 fund. I'm thinking in terms of an interim camera that upgrades my 20D, but doesn't wipe out what I've saved. When I get my 1D m4, the 50D could then serve as a much more up to date second body (and the 20D will go to my niece). I've got real shoots coming up that I've even considered renting a camera for. Based on what I've said, do you think my 50D interim idea is a good one? Or should I tough it out with the 20D while I build cash for the camera I really want?

I also considered a 40D that's super reasonable now at about $500, but it doesn't even have ISO 6400.

And, in case anyone's curious, the next lens upgrade I want is a 50 f/1.2 L, but the lenses I have are quite capable for what I'm doing, and the body issues are most important to me right now.

If you're planning for an interim camera, why not a T2i? Same sensor as the 7D but much cheaper, at the price of the 50D.

If you are making a ton of money from it, then it would be a moot point. Purchase the 1D Mark IV and it'll pay off shortly. But if it is a side gig or you are not generating much funds, I don't see a reason go purchase a 1D Mark IV if the additional cost to get it will not pay off quickly.

I use a 5D Mark II and a 7D. For low light wedding photography, I find myself grabbing the 7D very often, and I think it's a great improvement over the 20D. If you are shooting ISO 3200 and ISO 6400, you are probably shooting low light, and this is where the 7D will outdo the 60D, 50D, T1i, T2i, etc.

Wow, I understand how nice the 1 series cameras are, especially the 1D4, but why so quick to dismiss the 7D, or not consider a 1D3? Both are amazing, and if exposed properly will yield beautiful ISO 6400 images. The 7D will burst and write much faster than what you have now, and the 1D3...well, I'm sure a 24 frame RAW burst is more than sufficient for capturing a drummer going full-tilt .

Anyway, sorry about that rant. If you are sold on the 1D4, then I would simply use what you have now and save up for it. You can always use the 20D as your backup, and some people would argue that the 20D yields more pleasing images at ISOs 100-1600 than the 50D.

Good luck with the decision. Cheers!

jjsanc2 wrote in post #11992183
Wow, I understand how nice the 1 series cameras are, especially the 1D4, but why so quick to dismiss the 7D, or not consider a 1D3? Both are amazing, and if exposed properly will yield beautiful ISO 6400 images. The 7D will burst and write much faster than what you have now, and the 1D3...well, I'm sure a 24 frame RAW burst is more than sufficient for capturing a drummer going full-tilt .

Anyway, sorry about that rant. If you are sold on the 1D4, then I would simply use what you have now and save up for it. You can always use the 20D as your backup, and some people would argue that the 20D yields more pleasing images at ISOs 100-1600 than the 50D.

Good luck with the decision. Cheers!

Actually, I forgot to mention I was seriously considering the 1D m3, especially when it was at about $1800. However, recently, it's gone up to about $3000, which isn't all that far from the m4 anyway. Gonna monitor it, and if it goes back down, it's a possibility.

I agree the 7D is a great choice and performs well at high ISO. Maybe take a close look at the 5DII?

Thomas - I can only assume you are talking about new 1D3's, right? I just bought a used 1D3 a month ago for under $1900. It gives my 7D a run for its money in virtually every aspect, except pixel density and reach. My plan was to test both and choose one, but now I am going to keep both as they each have their particular specialties. 1D3 files are exceptional at all ISO levels, and can handle tremendous amounts of noise reduction and sharpening. 7D files cannot sustain the same treatment, but the detail housed in those files is amazing, and can take an extreme amount of cropping.

I understand your "pain" How about a used 1D3, with 20D backup?? You could have that by next week...

Here's one - https://photography-on-the.net …p?t=1005001&hig​hlight=1d3

Cheers.

If I was you I would rent a 7D and a 1DIII at the same time and run a test. You may find at that point that one of them is better than the other for your uses. Keep in mind the 7D also has video capacity if that means anything to you. If doing this for money and having to produce, a 1DIII with its dependability and dual cards might be the way to go. Either way I think your keeper rate will increase over the 20D. Better high ISO and better AF as well as burst rates.

I would keep soldiering on with the 20d and save the money instead of getting the 50d.
The 5dm3 is supposed to arrive later this year and should give the 1d4 a run for the money, then you'll have another choice to make.

colors on the markIII is crap at 6400, though low noise, it is still crap. I own two of these puppies for sports.


if the ability to shoot in low light situations is of main concern. 1.6x bodies are out of the question. 50D&7D etc etc. if Speed and good AF is not of concern. than 5d MKII is the answer, but if you are not shooting wall panel prints for Target, than megapixels is not of concern than i'd go with a used 1dsmkii.

lastly...if you want to save money period, don't get the newest and latest. MarkIV, 5dmkIII, 60D etc etc waste of money. (unless you shoot for SI)

Bradfordguy wrote in post #11992480
If I was you I would rent a 7D and a 1DIII at the same time and run a test. You may find at that point that one of them is better than the other for your uses. Keep in mind the 7D also has video capacity if that means anything to you. If doing this for money and having to produce, a 1DIII with its dependability and dual cards might be the way to go. Either way I think your keeper rate will increase over the 20D. Better high ISO and better AF as well as burst rates.

rarely used the SD slot other than saving my custom functions. if fact. i think i buy SD cards only to lose them days later.... CF is good!

Howard Ting wrote in post #11992927
in all seriousness, 50D is junk. get 5DmkII or 1dsMKII

Agreed! - I moved from a 50D to a 5D2 and the difference was huge!!! Also got a 1Ds2...although it's a quicker more 'immediate' camera than the 5D2, the 5D2 is way ahead on high ISO image quality. Much more user friendly too.

Get a 5D2...

Buy a 7D but through Canon Loyalty, you can get it for something like $1,100 its a refurbished one like new. I believe that will be your cheapest way of getting the 7d.

I just traded my 7D off for my 5DMK2 and I LOVE my 5d. The 7D was no slouch, it is an extremely qualified camera. When I get the extra money I am going to buy another one to shoot along with my 5d2.

HKGuns wrote in post #11993987
What I love is their statements aren't even pertinent to the question being asked. The OP clearly stated which two camera's he was considering. However, they find it necessary to litter the thread with useless information about "their" likes and dislikes that aren't even on topic.

OP -Get the 1DMIV if you can afford.....it really is worth the extra cost. Coming from a 20D I suspect you will find the 50D more than a worthy upgrade.

I'm okay with other models that might meet my needs being mentioned. I do agree that the comment about the 50D being "junk" is silly nonsense. One thing I realized was that a 1D Mark III or a 7D might hold their value pretty well. I could upgrade to one of them and keep stashing money away until the sale of my 1D 3 (or 7D), plus my stash could yield me my 1D 4. Then my main cam is the 1D 4 with my second body being the 20D, which is a considerable difference, but one that I might be able to live with. It's a tough call since the 50D is so reasonable and leaves me with 1K toward the 1D 4, and the end result is a 1D 4 as the main body and a 50D as the backup. However, going for a 1D 3 for now to be sold later gets me a superior camera to shoot with now until I finally get the holy grail.

lmyamen wrote in post #11993993
Buy a 7D but through Canon Loyalty, you can get it for something like $1,100 its a refurbished one like new. I believe that will be your cheapest way of getting the 7d.

I just traded my 7D off for my 5DMK2 and I LOVE my 5d. The 7D was no slouch, it is an extremely qualified camera. When I get the extra money I am going to buy another one to shoot along with my 5d2.

I thought Canon got rid of its loyalty program. I'm also not sure if I would qualify anyway since I didn't buy my 20D from them or even new. I bought it used in the summer of '07 from a photographer whom I know.

50D is an awesome camera, but here's how I would break it down for you

1D4 - No compromises. Including price.
7D - Sports camera, good video, best AF out of everything short of above.
5DII - If you don't care about AF, and the 50L you were talking about will SHINE on it.
50D - Great upgrade from 20D, no video, but will give you budget for glass