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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 04 Apr 2009 (Saturday) 17:05
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STICKY: Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance? (a tutorial)

 
scubthebub
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Mar 11, 2011 13:48 |  #136

Great tutorial! I was definitely one of the misinformed photographers. Thanks for all the hard work everyone.

Another good source to complement this tutorial:

Look at the "Influence of Lens Focal Length" section
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com/tutorials/c​amera-lenses.htm (external link)

Good image showing change of perspective under "Wide Angle Perspective"
http://www.cambridgein​colour.com …als/wide-angle-lenses.htm (external link)

This site has many other great tutorials if you are interested.


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cdo221
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Mar 15, 2011 13:55 |  #137

Excellent write up. I had a question regarding bokeh. I heard it depends only on aperture and your distance from the subject. So if you are far away but zoom in for the same framing as standing close zoomed out (ignoring the change in the perspective and size of the background stuff and looking at just the subject), will the background be the same amount of blur? Of coures the background will be different b/c of perspective but what abou the bokeh?

Thanks


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Wilt
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Mar 15, 2011 17:19 |  #138

cdo221 wrote in post #12025333 (external link)
Excellent write up. I had a question regarding bokeh. I heard it depends only on aperture and your distance from the subject. So if you are far away but zoom in for the same framing as standing close zoomed out (ignoring the change in the perspective and size of the background stuff and looking at just the subject), will the background be the same amount of blur? Of coures the background will be different b/c of perspective but what abou the bokeh?

Thanks

First, let's get terminology correct -- not because I am anal compulsive about terminology, but only to make sure we start with a common foundation of mutual understanding:

Depth of field (DOF) is the zone of focus in which they eye perceives small little circles, which are below a certain size, to be 'points'...the blur circles are small enough to fool the eye and brain into thinking 'sharp'. This is affected by FL, aperture, how large the image is and how far you are from the image as you view it

Out of focus background is everything behind the DOF zone, where the out of focus circles large enough to be perceived by the brain as 'blurry'. This is affected by FL, aperture, how large the image is and how far you are from the image as you view it.

Bokeh is a characteristic of the optical design of the lens and does not increase/decrease with changes in aperture, or how large the image is and how far you are from the image as you view it. Mirror lenses are usually typified by the unpleasant donut rings for out of focus highlight areas, bad bokeh. Bokeh is qualified as 'pleasing bokeh' or 'unpleasant bokeh' (or somewhere in between) and is not typically quantified. Bokeh characteristics can be different in a lens wide open vs. the same one stopped down, but it is the quality which changes, not the quantity of bokeh. This articles shows different bokeh in different lenses at f/4, and again at f/11, to illustrate what I just stated. (external link)

Just as DOF increases with smaller aperture (larger f/number), the Out-of-Focus background blur also decreases (gets less blurry) with smaller aperture. To illustrate, 50mm at f/1.8 vs. 50mm at f/4...

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/50mmf1_8.jpg
IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/50mmf4.jpg

The amount of background blur does change with FL, as was illustrated in the early posts of this thread (Post 3).

Finally, Perspective does not get different unless camera position changes! Perspective does not change with FL or aperture, it only changes when the camera position changes. (Post 4)

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cdo221
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Mar 16, 2011 00:09 |  #139

Ah thanks, I was getting all the terminology mixed up (I thought that a smaller DOF= 'more' bokeh but I didn't realize bokeh was the rather the quality outside the DOF).


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Wilt
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Mar 16, 2011 09:28 |  #140

'Bokeh' seems to be the most widely misunderstood and misused term among newcomers to photography today...no wait, 'crop factor' wins that one!


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scubthebub
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Mar 17, 2011 11:40 |  #141

A short video that is made for shooting video, but it applies to this discussion as well.
http://vimeo.com/19603​367 (external link)

The important statement is how he mentions the camera must be moved to obtain the same framing which changes the perspective.


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SkipD
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Mar 17, 2011 15:33 |  #142

scubthebub wrote in post #12038013 (external link)
A short video that is made for shooting video, but it applies to this discussion as well.
http://vimeo.com/19603​367 (external link)

The important statement is how he mentions the camera must be moved to obtain the same framing which changes the perspective.

What I did not hear, though, was that it's the distance that changes the perspective and not the focal lengths.


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scubthebub
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Mar 17, 2011 15:43 |  #143

SkipD wrote in post #12039492 (external link)
What I did not hear, though, was that it's the distance that changes the perspective and not the focal lengths.

I agree that this video only helps augment the detailed writeup and is not super strong in its own. But at about 1:06 he does say:

"Again, because we've moved the camera forward to compensate for the wider focal length our red candle is about about the same size and is about in the same section of the frame. But the apparent distance between the subject and the background has changed."

So he does mention it, but more in passing than as an important item that should be noted.


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Rissa
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May 18, 2011 01:14 |  #144

Thank you, i needed this tutorial.




  
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appsyscons
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Jun 01, 2011 14:21 as a reply to  @ Rissa's post |  #145

So much good practical info, I need to come back and re-read
this one a few more times.

Thanks!


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Nutty87th
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Jun 13, 2011 11:18 |  #146

I want to add my thanks to the authors who put together this article, and for those who've contributed to the discussion following it. Much appreciated and like others, I also learned something!

Thanks again,

James




  
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snkp360
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Jun 15, 2011 23:43 |  #147

I just have to say good tutorial....and was looking at Wilt's pictures more closely and noticed.....

Nice pics in front of Oracle and Larry's America's Cup Trimaran :D


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Wilt
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Jun 15, 2011 23:50 |  #148

snkp360 wrote in post #12601837 (external link)
I just have to say good tutorial....and was looking at Wilt's pictures more closely and noticed.....

Nice pics in front of Oracle and Larry's America's Cup Trimaran :D

You win the award for recognizing the location and objects in the photo!


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snkp360
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Jun 16, 2011 00:55 |  #149

Wilt wrote in post #12601865 (external link)
You win the award for recognizing the location and objects in the photo!

Besides growing up around there, I use to race crew in high school at the lagoon behind you in the pics, I couldn't ever forget that place lol


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Wilt
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Jun 16, 2011 09:05 |  #150

snkp360, My stepdaughter was coxswain for a women's 8, won gold in her HS freshman year at Saint Ignatius in the Regionals. Then in college (CSLB) she cox'd men's 8 and men's 4, placed 8th at Nationals in men's 4 (sophomore/junior year??), then after their stroke graduated they placed 12th at Nationals. This all ended in 2008 when she graduated. So I know that 2km long lagoon well. Who did you row for, and how long ago?

BTW, 'Larry's America's Cup Trimaran' at Oracle is a monohull actually, this 24-meter IACC boat was campaigned in 2006, I believe, when BMW and Allianz both sponsored...to illustrate and perhaps thrill competitive sailors like me:

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/IMG_1649s.jpg

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/IMG_1666s.jpg

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Perspective Control in Images - Focal Length or Distance? (a tutorial)
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