Problem with Custom White Balance and Custom Mode

This is my first post so be kind.

I programmed the custom settings (C1, C2, C3) within days of receiving my Canon 7D. I figured they cover 75 percent of my picture taking scenarios right now.

I was shooting a couple of days ago in a florescent lighted room mostly in the P mode. None of the programmed white balances looked natural (no surprise there )so I quickly did up a custom white balance. Pictures looked great.

The next day I was shooting in the same room with the same light. My session was turning to Portraits so I quickly switched to my custom C2 mode I programmed for portraits, and shot a couple of pictures. I realized after looking at the second or third picture that the White Balance had switch back to Auto White Balance (AWB). This was correct since it was what I programmed under the C2 setting. I quickly switched over to the Custom White Balance, confirmed the symbol on the top LCD and kept on shooting. About half way into my session I realized the pictures were not being taken with my custom white balance setting. I rechecked the top and bottom lcd panels and both showed the custom white balance symbol. I ended up going back to the AV mode because I could not get the custom white balance to take effect in C1, or C2 and C3 for that matter. Even after I saved them with the custom white balance set.

After playing with the camera for over an hour tonight I figured it all out. This is definitely a program bug. When you use a custom mode you have programmed, (C1,C2,C3) you can change any parameter while in the custom mode and it will take effect. It will switch back to its original setting if not saved but it will change on the fly. The custom white balance will not take effect even though the camera tells you it has.

In order to set the custom white balance under a custom mode, you must go into the custom mode, say C1, set the custom white balance and save it, then save the settings under C1. If your in AV mode set a custom white balance, then switch over to C1 C2 or C3 and pick your previously saved custom white balance, then try to save it with your C1, C2, or C3 setting, it will not take effect.

I'm posting this so no one else has this potentially disastrous problem and to make sure I'm not the only one with this problem.

Doesn't seem right to me. I welcome other opinions.

I'm running Firmware 1.2.3

Unfortuneately the next day after this happened I received the dreaded Error 20. My camera shop is replacing the camera but they stated it would take 10 to 20 days since they have 25 7D's on back order.

I believe Custom does take on new values if you "set" it while viewing a new reference image (whereas simply turning the wheel to custom should have returned it to previous.)

FWIW, when I come across tricky WB situations I try (1) time permitting, to zero in using the Kevin settings, so that I can repeat it preciously next time, or (2) shoot raw and use Post processing to get it right.

BWT, welcome to the Forum.

Hitthespot wrote in post #12046944
After playing with the camera for over an hour tonight I figured it all out. This is definitely a program bug. When you use a custom mode you have programmed, (C1,C2,C3) you can change any parameter while in the custom mode and it will take effect. It will switch back to its original setting if not saved but it will change on the fly.

I do not think it is a bug. The C modes always reset back to what you saved them to when you enable that mode. Any changes done while in that C mode are lost. Has always been like that for me. Good that you caught it before you went too far in your shooting.

Did you shoot RAW by any chance?

Thank you for the responses and the welcome.

I don't think you understand completely what I'm saying. When I went to the custom mode, C2, the auto white balance had been programmed in that mode. I noticed it, and changed the white balance to the custom white balance I had programmed the day before. The Custom White balance symbol showed on both LCD panels and the Custom white balance should have been in effect. If the camera was still shooting under Auto White Balance (AWB) then the symbol should have showed that (AWB), but it did not. It showed I was shooting the custom white balance setting. When I noticed the pictures did not look right (JPEG Only--Never again) I tried to save the previously saved white balance to the C2 setting but the software wouldn't do it. ( it showed it did, and the custom white balance symbol would show, but AWB was in effect) I had to shoot the white balance picture, save the custom white balance, and then save the custom mode setting (all while under the C2 Setting) in order to get the custom white balance to take effect. Seems like a software bug to me. I didn't check it but I bet it works both ways. If I now switched to AWB, I bet it would show on the LCD panels but I would be shooting in custom white balance.

If only I had a camera to check my theory. LOL Hopefully soon I'll have a new 7D.

Just did a test on the 5dm2, it worked for me.

Saved to c3 with a custom white balance.
Then went to AP changed to "fluorescent" WB and took a shot, then selected c3, took another shot and on review both images have a different WB.

Switched off the camera and took another set of shots, c3 has saved the previous custom white balance.

Hitthespot wrote in post #12047852
If only I had a camera to check my theory. LOL Hopefully soon I'll have a new 7D.

I'm confused, you have a problem with the 7D, but you don't own one?

If you read the whole thread, you'll see that he had to return it due to a problem. This problem happened while the camera was still working.

What you (Hitthespot) see is how the camera works, and how it should work, in my opinion. Some of the replies above indicate that they haven't understood 100% what you are asking, but they still are correct. Just answering something slightly different.

The 7D has eight picture styles, one manual and one custom white balance. But it has storage space for 32 picture styles and four each of the manual and custom white balances. Finally, it has a fifth setup which is the working setup.
For example, you can still see a custom picture style, created with the picture style editor and hence given a name that's not in the camera to begin with, under a saved setup in the camera. This picture style has been replaced since then, so in Tv mode it's no longer there. But it remains in the saved mode, and can be called up and be used within that mode, in spite of not being the one set to be used by default in the saved mode.
If you change the working setup, it's automatically stored in the storage setup, if you are in P, Tv or similar. If you are in C1, C2 or C3, you have to explicitly write it back to the storage.

So when you store a setting under C1, you store the current manual and custom white balance settings as well, even if they aren't registered to be used. So when you, while using C1, change from AWB to custom white balance, you call up the custom white balance that was in effect when you stored your settings to C1, not any other custom white balance you've stored since then, unless you actually stored it whilst using the C1 setting, and then also registered the new setup under C1.
However, while in the C1 mode, you can change the white balance to custom, take a picture of something white and tell the camera that this is what the custom WB should be based upon. If you don't register this setting to C1, the custom white balance will still be in effect, as long as you don't leave the C1 mode or power down the camera (not that auto power off is equal to manual power off here!). But regardless of whether you save this new custom WB to C1 or not, it will be local to C1. You'll have to re-register that custom WB, from the same image, if you want to use it in P mode or C2 or C3.

And the same goes for picture styles. If you register your settings under C1, and use a custom picture style to give a very soft and dreamy impression, then later, while in Tv mode, change that picture style to create high contrast and sharp edges, it will not change the same picture style "slot" stored under C1. Neither will changes to other picture styles, that normally aren't used by C1, do. If you call them up under C1, they'll look the way they did when you stored the setup in C1, not the way they look now, while in Av mode.
But a change done in P mode is applicable to Tv, Av, M and B.

Green box and CA have their own setup for picture styles. White balance is always AWB in these modes.

apersson850 wrote in post #12048876
Read the whole thread. He had to return it due to a problem. This problem happened while the camera was still working.

What you (Hitthespot) see is how the camera works, and how it should work, in my opinion. Some of the replies above indicate that they haven't understood 100% what you are asking, but they still are correct. Just answering something slightly different.

The 7D has eight picture styles, one manual and one custom white balance. But it has storage space for 32 picture styles and four each of the manual and custom white balances. Finally, it has a fifth setup which is the working setup.
For example, you can still see a custom picture style, created with the picture style editor and hence given a name that's not in the camera to begin with, under a saved setup in the camera. This picture style has been replaced since then, so in Tv mode it's no longer there. But it remains in the saved mode, and can be called up and be used within that mode, in spite of not being the one set to be used by default in the saved mode.
If you change the working setup, it's automatically stored in the storage setup, if you are in P, Tv or similar. If you are in C1, C2 or C3, you have to explicitly write it back to the storage.

So when you store a setting under C1, you store the current manual and custom white balance settings as well, even if they aren't registered to be used. So when you, while using C1, change from AWB to custom white balance, you call up the custom white balance that was in effect when you stored your settings to C1, not any other custom white balance you've stored since then, unless you actually stored it whilst using the C1 setting, and then also registered the new setup under C1.
However, while in the C1 mode, you can change the white balance to custom, take a picture of something white and tell the camera that this is what the custom WB should be based upon. If you don't register this setting to C1, the custom white balance will still be in effect, as long as you don't leave the C1 mode or power down the camera (not that auto power off is equal to manual power off here!). But regardless of whether you save this new custom WB to C1 or not, it will be local to C1. You'll have to re-register that custom WB, from the same image, if you want to use it in P mode or C2 or C3.

Thanks, good explanation.

apersson850 wrote in post #12048876
So when you store a setting under C1, you store the current manual and custom white balance settings as well, even if they aren't registered to be used. So when you, while using C1, change from AWB to custom white balance, you call up the custom white balance that was in effect when you stored your settings to C1, .

It took a minute to understand but the paragraph above explains it pretty well. That must mean that the camera will remember the old custom white balance that was in effect when the C setting was set even though the custom white balance has since been changed in the camera. I didn't think that was possible, and thus kept me from getting what everyone was saying. One thing is for sure, it could be explained a little better in the manual under programming the custom settings.

Well I've only had the camera for a week (before It went bad) so I guess I have a lot to learn. Sure is different than my old E2e. LOL

Thank You for taking the time.

I got the Error 20 message the next day after having this problem. (which appears isn't a problem after all.)

Hitthespot wrote in post #12049376
...even though the custom white balance has since been changed in the camera...

Exactly, because the custom white balance which has been changed is not that custom white balance, but another one, associated with a different custom mode, or not with any custom mode at all.

Once you understand that the 7D can hold several different custom white balances in its memory, just like it can hold different sets of picture styles, this is easy to grasp.

The 40D works exactly the same. I noticed this first when I got that camera.

The thing to do here is of course to consider if you need a custom white balance for a certain type of shooting, then you need to register it to the custom mode in question, and if the need changes, you need to re-register the new setting.

A 1D Mark IV can store different custom white balances in its memory, but that's something else. That's to create a bank of useful white balance settings, if you need them for recurring events.

apersson850 wrote in post #12049395
Once you understand that the 7D can hold several different custom white balances in its memory, just like it can hold different sets of picture styles, this is easy to grasp.

.

That is exactly where the mental block was. I didn't know the camera would save more than one custom white balance, in that case in my mind you should have to name them so you can see what custom white balance is in effect.

Thank You Apersson850.

Bill

You're welcome. The 1D Mark IV does allow you to name the different white balances you store, like "church", "stadium" etc.

apersson850 wrote in post #12049446
You're welcome. The 1D Mark IV does allow you to name the different white balances you store, like "church", "stadium" etc.

Well theres a new software version out, although I don't think its hit the Canon web site yet. 1.2.4 Maybe Canon read my thread. LOL

Bill