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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 19 Mar 2011 (Saturday) 18:07
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pfff what's the point of a 70-200 f2.8L (nonIS),not usuable without tripod @ 200mm :(

 
bobbyz
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Mar 19, 2011 19:43 |  #16

Too low a ss like laready mentioned. A less blurry high ISO image is still lot better than blurry noise free image. Agree with Mike also about practice. Was it your first time using 70-200mm f2.8 on 200m end?


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goatydude
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Mar 19, 2011 20:03 |  #17

CanonYouCan wrote in post #12052178 (external link)
I just deleted them almost all, the one here below is the most reasonable... the others were a lot worse :)

Taken at only 1/64 sec at ISO 1600
I see now too slow, I should have used ISO3200 at f2.8, but it had to go fast and you sometimes forget to switch to a higher ISO at 200mm. A pity Av has no auto-iso :)

Some people say you shouldn't even be afraid to use ISO6400 on a 5D2 but I don't like to many noise.

Shutter speed is just too slow for that focal length, even with IS and a static subject I doubt you will get truely sharp images at that shutter speed and focal length.

Isnt the old rule of thumb to shoot at a shutterspeed equivelent to the focal length (when hand held) eg for 200mm shoot at at least 1/200 (or more) even more if your shooting a crop body.

With the 5d2 ramp the ISO up till you get a decent shutterspeed (a sharp grainy image is better than an out of focus one) isnt that half the reason for getting a 5d2 in the first place, outstanding high ISO quality. If you get your exposure right you shouldnt get too much noise.

I regularly shoot the 70-200 2.8L NON IS and love the thing, absolutly sharp and a bargain these days second hand.

In my experience IS is no substitute for decent technique, in fact I just turn the IS off when using IS lens's.


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1dmk4 1dmk2 50d 70-200 2.8L 17-40 f4L 50 2.5 100 2.8 macro, 28 1.8 and the rest.....

  
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CanonYouCan
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Mar 19, 2011 20:16 |  #18

Yes just bought this cheap lens a month ago but only tested it in conditions with good light.
Sharpness is very good, some say it's a bit sharper than the IS version. In past I had the 135 2L and 200 2.8L but I'd rather have a zoom for this fl.
Maybe I'm still used to the 200 & 135mm which were more hand holdable, more in balance with the body due to the lesser weight, but I will think of this next time.

bobbyz wrote in post #12052546 (external link)
Was it your first time using 70-200mm f2.8 on 200m end?

Yes this is the rule everybody knows, but many people are used to shoot wide open for a great bokeh.
At events when suddenly a moviestar pops up further away out of a car, you sometimes don't have time to think when it goes fast.

In our situation, first some cars arrive just in front of us and it was even too close to get a picture at 70mm due to the minimal focal distance, but when they passed by and 70mm wide open f2.8 was ideal. But then suddenly a car arrived further away (it were 2 entrances) and I was zooming fast to 200mm and forgot to crank up the iso or shutterspeed to 1/200, in order not to miss the shot...

As there was no red carpet and two entrances, stars came from left and right but the left, not ideal for switching camera settings in a hurry all the time.
But most of them posed for the photographers so we have them all sharp, on the other hand posed pictures are a bit boring, always the same background, candid snaphots are more natural :)

goatydude wrote in post #12052630 (external link)
Isnt the old rule of thumb to shoot at a shutterspeed equivelent to the focal length (when hand held) eg for 200mm shoot at at least 1/200 (or more) even more if your shooting a crop body.


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MT ­ Stringer
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Mar 19, 2011 20:20 |  #19

Then suddenly a car further await (it were 2 entrances) fast switching to 200mm and forgetting to crank up the iso or shutterspeed, in order not to miss the shot...

That's the main reason you should be in manual and let the flash ETTL expose the shot.


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John ­ Godwin
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Mar 19, 2011 22:56 as a reply to  @ MT Stringer's post |  #20

If you are trying to stop motion blur and you are using a flash then you do not want to expose the shot as if you were using ambient light only. Set your camera to its maximum flash sync and set the ISO and f-stop so that the shot would be at least two stops underexposed if using ambient light only. Use the flash in ETTL and fire away. The flash will stop the motion blur and you will not have to depend on the shutter speed. An example is below. 1/250, f2.8, 300mm. The EXIF data is intact.


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arentol
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Mar 19, 2011 23:55 |  #21

I doubt IS would have helped in this situation, but I will say that given how good the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 OS it doesn't make any sense to buy the canon 70-200 f/2.8 any more. The Sigma has faster and more accurate AF, is sharper at all focal lengths, and barely costs more.

I used one on my 5dII for a little over a week and I basically could not get any unsharp shots.

As for your situation..... You need to use flash, even at 200mm, to freeze the subject. This would probably best be done with f/2.8, 1/100 or so, ISO 1600 so the background isn't pure black, and auto-zoom on the flash, and ETTL set to +1 or so (test and modify as necessary). I am pretty sure I could get that to work with my 580ex II, not entirely sure it would have worked with your 430 though.


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Mar 19, 2011 23:59 |  #22

arentol wrote in post #12053880 (external link)
I doubt IS would have helped in this situation, but I will say that given how good the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 OS it doesn't make any sense to by the canon 70-200 f/2.8 any more. The Sigma has faster and more accurate AF, is sharper at all focal lengths, and barely costs more.

I used one on my 5dII for a little over a week and I basically could not get any unsharp shots.

As for your situation..... You need to use flash, even at 200mm, to freeze the subject. This would probably best be done with f/2.8, 1/100 or so, ISO 1600 so the background isn't pure black, and auto-zoom on the flash, and ETTL set to +1 or so (test and modify as necessary). I am pretty sure I could get that to work with my 580ex II, not entirely sure it would have worked with your 430 though.

he used flash...all he had to do was switch to manual and set the shutter to 1/200 and he'd have nothing to complain about


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CanonYouCan
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Mar 20, 2011 06:36 |  #23

Yes I mainly use the aperture or shutterspeed priority setting with flash cause it's faster than manual, I guess I should try to work more on manual (if there is time to switch and adjust all settings). Otherwise I switch from Av to Tv @ 1/200 if I have no time.

DreDaze wrote in post #12053899 (external link)
he used flash...all he had to do was switch to manual and set the shutter to 1/200 and he'd have nothing to complain about


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Mar 20, 2011 07:07 |  #24

Alternatively you can use a custom function to set the shutter sync speed to 1/200 in Av Mode by default. The camera will then use the flash as the main source for light instead of a fill.




  
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Mar 20, 2011 07:19 |  #25

CanonYouCan wrote in post #12054752 (external link)
Yes I mainly use the aperture or shutterspeed priority setting with flash cause it's faster than manual, I guess I should try to work more on manual (if there is time to switch and adjust all settings). Otherwise I switch from Av to Tv @ 1/200 if I have no time.

Which settings would you have to change?


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DC ­ Fan
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Mar 20, 2011 08:02 |  #26

CanonYouCan wrote in post #12052079 (external link)
Is this really a tripod lens when using 200mm or should I have taken ISO3200?

Pictures from an actual 70-200mm f/2.8 lens, a non-stabilized Tamron:

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


Focal Length: 200.0mm
Aperture: f/2.8
Exposure Time: 0.0040 s (1/250)
ISO equiv: 6400
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: program (Auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB


IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


Focal Length: 200.0mm
Aperture: f/2.8
Exposure Time: 0.0008 s (1/1250)
ISO equiv: 100
Exposure Bias: +0.67 EV
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: aperture priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


Focal Length: 200.0mm
Aperture: f/2.8
Exposure Time: 0.0040 s (1/250)
ISO equiv: 6400
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: program (Auto)
White Balance: Manual
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB


A non-stabilized 70-200mm lens at f/2.8 is very usable, but success depends on way the lens is handled. Experience and a steady hand help get good results.



  
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Mar 20, 2011 12:30 |  #27

Unanswered wrote in post #12054827 (external link)
Alternatively you can use a custom function to set the shutter sync speed to 1/200 in Av Mode by default. The camera will then use the flash as the main source for light instead of a fill.

is that true for all cameras?...i need to do that on my dad's XSi if i can


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tkbslc
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Mar 20, 2011 12:38 |  #28

DreDaze wrote in post #12056200 (external link)
is that true for all cameras?...i need to do that on my dad's XSi if i can

On the XSi it is C. FN 2 - Flash Sync in AV mode

0 is the default which is auto with a range of 30 to 1/200 seconds
1 sets it to max sync (1/200)


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DreDaze
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Mar 20, 2011 12:58 |  #29

tkbslc wrote in post #12056237 (external link)
On the XSi it is C. FN 2 - Flash Sync in AV mode

0 is the default which is auto with a range of 30 to 1/200 seconds
1 sets it to max sync (1/200)

sweet thanks, now i don't have to hear all the "but i used flash, why does it look like this?"...and then tell him over, and over again all he has to do is switch to M, where i have him set up to use flash...i really need to make him a 3X5 cheat sheet...


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Mar 20, 2011 12:59 |  #30

A good rule for shutter speeds is 1/focal length (the 35mm equivalent focal length).

You are using a 5Dii, so you can straight up use your focal length. 1.6x crop sensors will need to multiply by 1.6.

So at 200mm you should be using 1/200 as a bare minimum. Anything less than that and you're probably going to have blurry photos.


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pfff what's the point of a 70-200 f2.8L (nonIS),not usuable without tripod @ 200mm :(
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