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Thread started 26 Mar 2011 (Saturday) 11:08
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Avoiding Assault (Or Lowering the Odds)

 
rhys216
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Mar 27, 2011 09:40 |  #31
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@LBaldwin
Good for her...




  
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LBaldwin
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Mar 27, 2011 09:46 |  #32

toxic wrote in post #12101427 (external link)
If those are its philosophies, then it's not the best martial art to learn. As a photographer who's doing a job, the OP won't be in a position to hit first, and equipment is likely to get in the way of successive moves.

If the threat is still remote, things like tasers, firearms, or pepper spray are viable since there's time to pull them out. Once someone's on top of you, though, all you can do is make noise or get them off and run away. Without knowing the specifics of the OP's situation, I think a martial art that stresses grappling and ground moves is the better option, like judo or jujitsu.

The shortcomings of just bringing someone else is that they can't watch all the time, and everyone has mental lapses at some point.

That's just it KM is NOT a martial art. Martial arts are for excersize and getting belts and trophies and other stuff. They often do have a street component, but KM was designed from the beginning for everyday people - weaklings included to survive and disarm, disuade and seriously hurt an assailant. No stupid high kicks to the head.

Judo ( I held a brown belt for years in this art) is useless on the street. The same with most of the others. Karate is for when you run out of ammo.. the saying goes. In KM you are taught to take quick decisive action to keep your attacker from taking your life. Kenpo, Akido, Ju Jitsu, Karate, are all great - sports. But they start from a stance, they finish in a stance. Useless on the street. NONE of those MA that I named above have a decent defense against a bad guy with a carabiner wrapped around his hand. For the OP to give up her feet and get on the ground means that she loses the one real weapon she has - the ability to hit first - hard and extend out and run.


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i ­ live ­ with ­ joy
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Mar 27, 2011 09:58 |  #33

My first post....and all I can say is - "Good Grief?!"
Makes me wonder as to what this world is coming to, when forms of unarmed offensive/defensive tactics and the use of firearms are suggested to help in a 'tricky' situation. Use your mouth first and see what reaction you get from the aggressors and any onlookers. Then, get your gun Annie :-)
Jeez....you'd think we all live in Libya/Afghanistan...bu​t hey..it's on the news, so it's all gotta to be like that eh?

dave...


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workerdrone
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Mar 27, 2011 10:33 |  #34

^ever been beat up and fear for your life, dave? Young woman alone and carrying expensive stuff (ideal target for scum) gets sent to the ER with injuries and deals with police from this 'tricky' situation and she was supposed to negotiate politely with these guys?

Good Grief indeed. Sure, words and a smile should always come first but I sure hope you don't have daughters you're teaching to be victims


I know squat about PP. Old: Canon 10-22, 18-55, 24L, 50 1.4, 50L, 85 1.8, 24-105L, 70-200 2.8L nonIS, Sigma 30 1.4, Tamron 18-200 lenses. t2i, 7D, Xsi bodies. New: D700, 14-24, 50G, 105 VR Macro, 70-300 VR, SB700

  
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Mar 27, 2011 10:57 |  #35

workerdrone wrote in post #12102143 (external link)
Good Grief indeed. Sure, words and a smile should always come first but I sure hope you don't have daughters you're teaching to be victims

Luckily up till now...my daughters are 20 and 18, they've not been in a position to become victims. But I hope I've taught them enough in those years that they can make a choice.
I dunno much about America, so I should not have commented, but I've seen rough and smooth in my lifetime and never thought "I wish I had a gun".

Kin 'Ell - haven't I got off on the wrong foot on this site!

*goes back to looking at the amazing pix on here*


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toxic
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Mar 27, 2011 11:06 |  #36

LBaldwin wrote in post #12101893 (external link)
For the OP to give up her feet and get on the ground means that she loses the one real weapon she has - the ability to hit first - hard and extend out and run.

You're assuming that she will have the opportunity to strike first. I don't think that's a reasonable assumption. Either the aggressor is identified from a distance, in which case firearms, sprays, etc., or simply running is an option; or they've already made the first move, which I'm assuming is some sort of grapple. If that's the case, getting out it is the priority, not hitting hard.




  
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joechaos
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Mar 27, 2011 12:24 |  #37

A gun is the answer! It's time to get rid of the thugs once and for all. I live in Michigan but envy Texas justice. It's time to stop making excuses for criminals and start dealing with them.




  
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workerdrone
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Mar 27, 2011 12:40 |  #38

This thread oughta be shut down right about here IMO...seems the OP got her chance to vent to a sympathetic audience. Props to her for a great attitude and already being well on the path of avoiding victimization. Strength to you Jess.

@joechaos, enjoy life in prison after gunning down a thug or two. Guns are rarely the answer but sometimes they are the only really effective equalizer against a superior physical threat (such as big thug vs. petite female)

@i live with joy, welcome to the forum, didn't mean to be harsh but if I have a daughter some day piano lessons will be optional but becoming an early expert in self defense will not. I see pretty clearly where the world is headed in the near future and it doesn't look any safer or friendlier.

Personally I wish law enforcement would just set up stings galore until the criminals would just assume that every perceived opportunity is some kind of setup that will quickly land them in jail. Eventually technology will probably make the world a lot safer and more boring but until then watch your backs and the backs of those you cherish...


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signet35
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Mar 27, 2011 13:24 |  #39

workerdrone wrote in post #12102143 (external link)
^ever been beat up and fear for your life, dave? Young woman alone and carrying expensive stuff (ideal target for scum) gets sent to the ER with injuries and deals with police from this 'tricky' situation and she was supposed to negotiate politely with these guys?

Good Grief indeed. Sure, words and a smile should always come first but I sure hope you don't have daughters you're teaching to be victims


Are you certain that she was alone? SXSW in Austin - the streets are packed 24/7.
Are you certain she was inured? Her blog posts and her post here are contradictory on this point.

OP isn't being 100% clear about what exactly transpired in Austin.

She asks for input on self-defense: Yet in a later post states she has CCW and self-defense training.

So why is she asking for input if she already carries, and has taken defense training?

She also alludes to ER and broken bones.

If you go to her blog, she has a different description of what happened - it doesn't mention emergency or being injured:
Only that she discharged some sort of spray and ran to a nearby cop.

In an earlier post on her blog, approx 10 days before SXSW, she alludes to being injured and having a sling, etc.

A bit difficult to determine what actually happened or didn't happen to OP.




  
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GeeMack
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Mar 27, 2011 15:36 |  #40

Workerdrone - I don't think this thread should be shut down. It's an important subject and one that people openly carrying expense hardware is more likely than others to encounter.
.
Signet35. I think you're right about one thing. We weren't there and we don't know the whole story but that doesn't diminish the subject matter.
.
Everyone has their own opinion about violence whether one is on the giving or receiving end. We don't have to agree with everyone but we should listen and see if that point of view might be applicable to ourselves.
.
IMHO


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cptrios
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Mar 27, 2011 15:51 |  #41

Signet, I wouldn't go casting doubt around just yet. As far as I know, it's fairly normal practice for someone who goes through even a threatening situation to be taken to the hospital for shock.

And OP, given everything you've said here and in your blog (self defense, mace/pepper spray, etc) I think that your only course of action for avoiding a situation like that is simply not to walk around a city alone at night unless it's a crowded area. It's really not a good idea for a person of any gender...but the sad truth is that it's a much worse idea for a woman.


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FireGirl_Photography
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Mar 28, 2011 10:48 |  #42

Thanks for ideas, all. I didn't think this would draw the attention that it has and merely started the thread with the hopes that I could learn and get some fresh ideas on how to avoid another situation like this.

@signet35 - You're right, SXSW does tend to be very busy. Unfortunately at this time of night and state of inebriation for most people help was not readily available.

To clear it up, I did spend some time in the ER. Though I was previously injured on a recent assignment I did not wear my sling / brace to SXSW with the thought that they would only draw attention and make me appear an easier mark. I have commercial clients on my blog daily and do not want to bore them with details of injuries. It happens.

I do have a CWP and self defense weaponry training but was asking about martial arts - type self defense. Many good folks on here have directed me to Krav Maga and I will be looking into that once I land back in Austin.

Again, thanks all.


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ocabj
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Mar 28, 2011 11:05 |  #43

Incidents like this raise lots of ideologies and varying views.

It seems like there's always the underlying issue of trying to reconcile advice on how to 'not to be a victim' (how not to attract attention') and not blaming the victim.

So do we make the effort to make ourselves not look like easy targets? Or do we make the effort to figure out ways to defend ourselves if we become a target?

Frankly, I say we should do both.

I do not understand why people have a hard time accepting the idea of carrying a firearm for protection (or even a knife). Is it worth killing someone over a camera? No, but I feel it is an acceptable deterrent in the event someone tries to take your camera. If after being presented with the muzzle end of the firearm they still wish to proceed to try and take your camera, then it obviously means they're willing to do more to obtain said camera (e.g. use their own force to overcome your deterrent), at which point it becomes self-defense.

Of course, I'm sure half the people reading this will disagree completely.

But that's just where I stand.

Sure, I guess I could just hand over my camera (or whatever) to the would be attackers and just chalk it up to insurance. But are you going to do this every time you get robbed? At what point do you draw the line?

OP: I'm sorry you had to go through this. I hope you recover (emotionally/physicall​y) quickly from this ordeal.


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barkingspud
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Mar 28, 2011 11:22 |  #44

Pepper Spray...Forget the Gun, you'll wind up getting shot yourself.




  
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gcmj45acp
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Mar 28, 2011 11:24 |  #45

FireGirl_Photography wrote in post #12096694 (external link)
Last week I narrowly escaped an assault in downtown Austin while on assignment covering SXSW music showcases. I realize that the combination of being a young woman (I'm 23), carrying around expensive camera gear, and working solo at an event like this ups my odds of getting into trouble. But after a night spent in the emergency clinic / talking to the police I'm trying to find a way to minimize risk.

Any ideas?

I carry a very, very low-profile camera bag and always dress to match the locals. Typically work alone but always carry some form of self-defense. Keep a cell phone easily accessible.

I've met grizzly bears that were more friendly than that crowd.


You've got the basics covered but, you need a plan and in some situations, it may be wise to have partner. This goes for guys and gals. I'm 6'2", weigh 320lbs and carry guns and knives every day yet, there are some places/times I won't shoot without a partner watching my back because if your eyes are in the camera or you are simply watching what's happening to catch that perfect moment, your mind isn't on watching for threats or potential threats. FWIW, I almost never shoot in public places without a fellow photog and we watch each others backs so that when one is shooting, the other is watching for potential trouble. Fortunately for me, nearly all the photogs I hang out with are also carrying guns, knives or permissible alternatives depending on the events/locations we are shooting.

Austin may be "weird" in it's liberal tendencies but, it is just like any other town or city in that there are people walking around who can and will kill you just for looking at them, let alone for having a nice camera. Some of them are people in need of medical treatment for mental defect and others are simply thieves. When it comes to defending your life, you really don't have the time to figure out which category they fit. Have a plan, practice using your means of defense on a regular basis, and if possible, bring a friend/fellow photog to watch your back.


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