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Thread started 28 Mar 2011 (Monday) 10:02
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Question about NoiseWare

 
GarryKirsch
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Mar 28, 2011 10:02 |  #1

I just downloaded the 'community' (free) version of NoiseWare, and tried it out on a sample image. I used the default noise reduction settings. The file was 10MB before processing, and only 1MB afterwards. The resolution remained the same.
Can anyone tell me why/how this happens?


Garry............... May you pack two days of livin' into every day you're given.
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Mark-B
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Mar 28, 2011 10:13 |  #2

Before it was a RAW or TIFF, and after it was a JPG?


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GarryKirsch
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Mar 28, 2011 10:21 |  #3

Thanks, Mark.
No. It started as a JPG. By default the program just adds 'filtered' to the filename, and outputs it in the same format.


Garry............... May you pack two days of livin' into every day you're given.
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BrandonSi
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Mar 28, 2011 10:23 |  #4

Does the free version have a limit on the resolution / quality of the output image? Are there output preferences / settings that allow you to change the quality settings?


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GarryKirsch
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Mar 28, 2011 10:45 |  #5

Thanks, Brandon.
I don't know. I'll check that when I get home from work.


Garry............... May you pack two days of livin' into every day you're given.
Canon EOS 60D, Tamron SP 70-300mm f/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS
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Kolor-Pikker
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Mar 28, 2011 11:06 |  #6

Well, for starters, JPEG compression tries to preserve contrasty detail (read: edges) while compressing flat and smooth areas of the photo. If you used noise reduction software it means the original had quite a bit of noise, which just happens to be the enemy of compression because the JPEG compressor doesn't know whether it is detail or not, and so tries to preserve everything.

If you take some time to take photos of an identical subject at different ISO settings, you'll find that as the ISO goes up, the file size will go up too. This effect happens even with RAW files, but to a lesser degree.


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GarryKirsch
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Mar 28, 2011 11:13 |  #7

Thank you, Kolor-Pikker. That makes sense - although it's hard to believe that 90% of the file info is noise. I hope you're right because then I can rest easy that nothing else is being lost in the process.


Garry............... May you pack two days of livin' into every day you're given.
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Kolor-Pikker
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Mar 28, 2011 11:19 |  #8

I find it hard to believe too, but then I've been surprised before...


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Kolor-Pikker
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Mar 28, 2011 12:06 |  #9

Not content at leaving it with just that, I performed a test. I took a series of images with my 5D2, and recorded to large fine jpeg, starting from ISO100 up to 6400 with all in-camera NR turned off. Subject was a stationary scene that was completely out of focus to take out detail as a factor, and compensated every stop of ISO with shutter speed, to keep the same exposure.

ISO100 - 3.38mb
ISO200 - 4.23mb
ISO400 - 4.66mb
ISO800 - 5.47mb
ISO1600 - 6.88mb
ISO3200 - 8.58mb
ISO6400 - 11.3mb


Then I took the two most offending shots at 3200 and 6400 ISO and used Nik Dfine in Photoshop to reduce noise and re-saved as high-quality Jpegs... but for some reason they were only a little smaller in size than the originals, so instead I started playing with the quality slider. (scale of 1-12)

ISO3200:
12 = 8.2mb
11 = 4.5mb
10 = 2.5mb
9 = 1.7mb

ISO6400:
12 = 10.5mb
11 = 5.9mb
10 = 3.5mb
9 = 2.3mb

Oddly enough, as much impact as increasing ISO had on the image compression, NR did not, however, setting the quality lower did drop the file size significantly.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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GarryKirsch
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Mar 28, 2011 12:31 |  #10

Wow! The difference in file size at each ISO level is staggering. Thank you for doing all that work, it is really informative. I will check the default settings of my NoiseWare and I bet I'll find it's set to reduce the quality as well as the noise. I will also try printing some shots before and after noise reduction at say 8 1/2 x 11 to see if there is any visible loss (other than noise). I really appreciate all your effort on this.


Garry............... May you pack two days of livin' into every day you're given.
Canon EOS 60D, Tamron SP 70-300mm f/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS
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tonylong
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Mar 28, 2011 12:55 |  #11

The Community/Freeware version is set to not give you the best quality, from what I remember. Getting the full version will give you more options.


Tony
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GarryKirsch
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Mar 28, 2011 13:11 |  #12

Thanks, Tony.
I am looking to find a NR plug-in for GIMP (which I use for my PP).


Garry............... May you pack two days of livin' into every day you're given.
Canon EOS 60D, Tamron SP 70-300mm f/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS
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bl4scott
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Mar 28, 2011 14:55 |  #13

I just posted a question about file sizes reducing after making changes to the orig picture. I almost always you a noise reduction "NIK" program and this helps explain why my sizes are always dropping. I wonder if other edits somehow reduce the overall file size.


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tonylong
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Mar 28, 2011 17:14 |  #14

Noise reduction can reduce the file size since, as was mentioned, noise adds "detail" to an image and so the jpeg compression will be more effective with a less noisy image. But that is different from software saving at a low quality level, which will also make the file size smaller. And, using a noise reduction plug-in for Gimp should not reduce the quality of the image when handing it back to Gimp.


Tony
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Tony Long Photos on PBase (external link)
Wildlife project pics here (external link), Biking Photog shoots here (external link), "Suburbia" project here (external link)! Mount St. Helens, Mount Hood pics here (external link)

  
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lauderdalems
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Mar 28, 2011 19:19 |  #15

Also, as I understand it, different software compresses the jpg file differently too.


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Question about NoiseWare
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