Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Apr 2011 (Tuesday) 08:31
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Mark III Focus Problems - Please Help!!!

 
Pipernails
Mostly Lurking
19 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Joined Mar 2010
     
Apr 05, 2011 08:31 |  #1

To the Canon Forum Community,

I am sending my Canon Mark III 1D to be examined by the Canon engineers in Lake Success, NY for the FIFTH time. Yes, the FIFTH time. Despite the fact that the engineers have found legitimate, technical problems with the AF Sensor (scroll down for the lengthy correspondence between myself and the Canon Representative that highlights the history of my camera), I continue to get the run-around. I've been told that Canon will not send me a new camera "just like that". I've been told that the best they can do is send me a refurbished model. I don't know what else to do. So I'm reaching out to this forum for help.

Here are the settings I use to shoot sports:

Manual (sometimes AV or TV depending on conditions) AI Servo, Rear Button Focus, Center AF point with inner 9 points assist.

C. Fn III (4:1 Continuous AF Track Priority)
C. Fn III (8:2 Enable - Surrounding Assist Point)
C. Fn III (9:1 Inner 9 points)
C. Fn IV (1:3 AE lock/metering + AF Start
C. Fn IV (2:1 AF-ON/AE lock button switch - Enable)

Am I doing something wrong? Would you recommend alternative settings for better results? What about micro-adjustments? If the AF sensor is not working properly on my camera, do my settings even matter?

At the end of this post, I have attached 2 photos that illustrate the soft-focus/out-of-focus problems I've been having.

Any advice, suggestions, feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Laura Ortiz


My Letter to Canon:

Dear ****,

It was a pleasure speaking with you earlier today. I sincerely hope we can achieve a resolution to this on-going auto focus problem with my Canon Mark III 1D. I will send you e-mails shortly with attachments of photos I took on 3/18/11 that will highlight the hit or miss nature of my camera.

As we discussed, my Canon Mark III was not focusing properly, causing me to take it to the Canon Factory Service Center in Jamesburg, NJ.

The first repair was completed on March 3rd, 2010 (Order Number: BL618731). The examination revealed: "Your product has been examined and it was found that the AF assembly was incorrect causing inaccurate auto focus from time to time. Replaced focus screen. All repaired and corresponding testing have been completed to Canon Factory standards. Firmware was updated to the latest version. Adjusted AE/AF basic."

The second repair was completed on September 21st, 2010 (Order Number: BL96422). The examination revealed: "Your product has been examined and it was found that the adjustment of the AF assembly was incorrect causing inaccurate auto focus from time to time. Replaced mirror/SH charge lever ass'y and shutter ass'y. All repaired and corresponding testing have been completed to Canon Factory standards. Firmware was updated to the latest version. Adjusted AE/AF basic."

The third repair was completed on December 6th, 2010 (Order Number: BM079662). The examination revealed: " Your product has been examined and it was found that the AF assembly was incorrect causing inaccurate auto focus from time to time. Replaced mirror box ass'y and others. All repaired and corresponding testing have been completed to Canon Factory standards. Firmware was updated to the latest version."

After speaking with you in January 2011, I sent my Canon Mark III 1D, as well as my 70-200mm f2.8 lens, to Lake Success, NY in order for the Canon engineers to evaluate the auto-focus problems. Below is the correspondence I received from you regarding my Canon Mark III 1D, dated 1/20/11:

Good Morning Ms. Ortiz,

I have gathered and noted below the evaluation results and resolution as
advised by Canons Camera Engineer. I see that your equipment was
returned to you this past Saturday. Per our previous conversation(s),
you are welcome to contact me when you have an opportunity to shoot more
action shots.

It has been a pleasure assisting you and I hope to speak with you this
Spring.

Much Regards,
******
850K Greenbrier Cir.
Chesapeake, VA 23320
866-886-1901


Ortiz  1D MK III

Evaluation Result; "We have checked the Ortiz EOS 1D Mark III. The
camera needs AF adjustment. Check of AF sensor output revealed that
the output of some of the AF sensors is on the edge of tolerance, in
particular some AF points at center".

Resolution; ADJUST AF SENSOR OUTPUT in the AUTO FOCUS FRONT FOCUS area
Electrical adjustments were carried out on the AF assembly and product
functions were confirmed.

For the EOS 1D Mark III the FSC performed adjustment of the AF sensors.
The difference from the previous repair is that they fine adjusted it
tighter within specification.
As for the EF 70-200mm f/2.8 IS we performed adjustment of the lens' AF
accuracy. This also was adjusted tighter within specification.

Example; Every adjustment has a target. Let's call that value "0".
Every adjustment has a tolerance. Let's say that tolerance is +/- 5.
So, the range of acceptable adjustment would be -5 to +5. If a unit
came in and the adjustment was at +4, it would be within specification.
If they then adjusted it to +2, it would be adjusted even closer to
specification, thus it was adjusted tighter.

Is it something that the customer is doing to take it out of adjustment?
It doesn't sound like it was out of adjustment. It sounds like they
just adjusted it tighter to the specification when it already was within
the tolerance.

***************
On Saturday, March 18th, 2011, I used the Canon Mark III 1D, along with my 70-200mm f2.8 to shoot my son's baseball game. Unfortunately, even after the latest adjustments by the Canon engineers, the same auto-focus problems persist. Several shots were out-of-focus, some were "soft" focus, etc. The camera is not performing the way it should, by my standards or by Canon's. I have been patient, understanding, and have done everything asked of me by Canon representatives. Words cannot express my continued frustration and disappointment.

I would like to remain a Canon loyalist. I would like to recommend Canon to my peers. Please give me reason to do so.

Sincerely,
Laura Ortiz


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Palladium
Goldmember
3,905 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Not the Left Coast but the Right Coast - USA
     
Apr 05, 2011 08:42 |  #2

How would you categorize your non action photos ?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
nicksan
Man I Like to Fart
Avatar
24,729 posts
Likes: 46
Joined Oct 2006
Location: NYC
     
Apr 05, 2011 09:00 |  #3

What is your keeper rate? Do they all look like that or say a few out of a sequence of 10?
Have you tested to make sure that your lens isn't back focusing?
How does the camera do in single shot mode?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cristphoto
Senior Member
958 posts
Likes: 54
Joined Feb 2010
Location: Maryland
     
Apr 05, 2011 09:02 |  #4

What's wrong with Canon sending you a refurbished unit? That's probably the best they can do since the 1D3 is no longer in production.


5D MKIV x2, 24L II, 35L II, 50L, 85LIS, 100LIS Macro, 135L, 300LIS, 16-35LIS, 24-70L, 70-200LIS, 100-400LIS

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jon_Doh
Senior Member
Avatar
872 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 65
Joined Apr 2007
Location: Pyongyang, North Korea
     
Apr 05, 2011 09:04 |  #5

Take the refurbished model, they're aren't any new models of the Mark III and they aren't going to give you a Mark IV. If you'll get a refurb blue dot model you'll be fine. You'll really enjoy what this camera can do once you get one without problems.


I use a Kodak Brownie

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
nicksan
Man I Like to Fart
Avatar
24,729 posts
Likes: 46
Joined Oct 2006
Location: NYC
     
Apr 05, 2011 09:04 |  #6

For what it's worth, I've had to send stuff in 4 or 5 times as well. The description used is pretty much standard for all calibration, adjustments, except for specific things like replacement of the mirror box assembly, etc. It's really a sad testament to the low quality service that you CAN get sometimes. But 5 times? That's not by chance. I can understand someone screwing up once, but 5 times? Sorry Canon. You guys suck. :lol:

As I recall, there were a few major mixes for the 1D3:
1) Sub Mirror fix
2) Replacement of the mirror box assembly and some washers
3) AF tweak.

I think it all ended around Spring/Summer of 2009.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
nicksan
Man I Like to Fart
Avatar
24,729 posts
Likes: 46
Joined Oct 2006
Location: NYC
     
Apr 05, 2011 09:05 |  #7

cristphoto wrote in post #12161756 (external link)
What's wrong with Canon sending you a refurbished unit? That's probably the best they can do since the 1D3 is no longer in production.

Jon_Doh wrote in post #12161769 (external link)
Take the refurbished model, they're aren't any new models of the Mark III and they aren't going to give you a Mark IV. If you'll get a refurb blue dot model you'll be fine. You'll really enjoy what this camera can do once you get one without problems.

Yup. Agreed. Make sure you get them to agree to give you some warranty with that as well. I wouldn't hesitate getting a refurb unit.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
zerovision
Goldmember
Avatar
1,204 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Aug 2008
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth area
     
Apr 05, 2011 09:33 |  #8

I'm not convinced this is a camera issue. The first image is focused on everyone in the background. The subject has a black shirt. If the focus point is on the subjects shirt, then AF will have a hard time properly adjusting. The surrounding sensors will try to determine the subject and it picked the background or the focus point was moved off the subject and focused on the background when the shot was taken.

Same with the next shot, the subject has a black shirt and the grass looks in focus. This is common when taking action shots. It happens to me all the time when I am shooting a dark subject and if I don't put the focus point on the numbers then it wont focus. I use the Mark III and there are times that it does it right and times that it doesn't.

I understand why the do not give you a Mark IV. Canon may have found some issues with your camera, but there were updates done for the Mark III firmware as well as sending it in to have Canon tweek it.

I would ask Canon to send back the one you just sent in. The Mark III is a great camera, but every camera has limitations and I would simply suggest that you learn from this experience and come to the forum before you make assumptions of product defect.

Don't fault yourself or Canon it happens and DSLRs are complex devices and it takes a lot of practice to learn. I think you'll see after trial and error that this camera will do the job when you are trained to see why your not getting the results that you want.

Good luck.


  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
namasste
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,879 posts
Likes: 63
Joined Jul 2007
Location: NE Ohio
     
Apr 05, 2011 11:15 |  #9

This is really unfortunate and I feel for you Laura. One thing that I'd try (tagging onto zerovision's comments) is to disable the assist points. Remember that your sensors are looking for contrast and when they don't see it (all black jersey's for instance), they'll look to the assist points for contrast. If those points are outside your subject, guess what? Bottom line, I like my camera to think for me as little as possible (the result is that sometimes neither of us are thinking!) but I'd try that and see if your results are the same. If so (and possibly even if not), I'd take the refurb and start all over.


Scott Evans Photography (external link)
SportsShooterProfile (external link) l MaxPreps Profile (external link)
Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
svarley
Senior Member
Avatar
592 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Mar 2009
Location: LA, CA
     
Apr 05, 2011 11:45 |  #10

Those shots don't typify the type of shot that 1d3's had trouble with either and even the faulty mk3s should have nailed those. It focused perfectly on the fence behind your son, so really, it looks like a case of missed focus. I like to use the assist points as well and I haven't had this sort of trouble with dark jerseys. CF3-9 just limits which focus points you can rapidly access, it's got nothing to do with the assist points.

The second image is terribly backfocused too, it's almost like you accidentally had a side focus point activated instead of the center.

Good luck with the refurb!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Joe ­ Cyr
Senior Member
Avatar
979 posts
Likes: 8
Joined Mar 2006
Location: Northern Maine
     
Apr 05, 2011 14:40 |  #11

Could be worse, you could be getting Err-99 on every other shot like I was. Still waiting to hear what the deal is on mine.


Canon 1D (MARK III),
10d, Elan IIE (old school), 580exII
70-200 f/2.8L, 17-40 f/4L, 85 1.8, 50 1.8 (nifty)
http://josephcyrphotog​raphy.smugmug.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Pipernails
THREAD ­ STARTER
Mostly Lurking
19 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Joined Mar 2010
     
Apr 05, 2011 14:41 as a reply to  @ svarley's post |  #12

Thank you to everyone who has posted a reply. I appreciate your help.

I have attached 2 more photos that I took on 4/2 that will hopefully illustrate better what is happening. I shot a sequence of the shortstop throwing to first base in burst mode. The first 3 are in focus, the remaining 7 are not. I don't know how to post them all, so I posted the shot that is in focus and the shot that directly follows it which is OOF.

Can someone please explain what went wrong here?


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Palladium
Goldmember
3,905 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Not the Left Coast but the Right Coast - USA
     
Apr 05, 2011 14:46 |  #13

Pipernails wrote in post #12163962 (external link)
Thank you to everyone who has posted a reply. I appreciate your help.

I have attached 2 more photos that I took on 4/2 that will hopefully illustrate better what is happening. I shot a sequence of the shortstop throwing to first base in burst mode. The first 3 are in focus, the remaining 7 are not. I don't know how to post them all, so I posted the shot that is in focus and the shot that directly follows it which is OOF.

Can someone please explain what went wrong here?

in the 2 examples above - IMO there is quite a lot of camera movement from the first frame to the next.

Look at the fence post on the left side in the first image and see how much the fence post is moved in the next. Usually for sequential images - the backgrounds should look pretty much the same with only the subject moving.

I would guess user error.

As for the subject not being in focus - just a quess but with all the camera movement - your focusing thumb could have moved off the back focus button.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Joe ­ Cyr
Senior Member
Avatar
979 posts
Likes: 8
Joined Mar 2006
Location: Northern Maine
     
Apr 05, 2011 14:50 |  #14

I would occasionally get images like that as well. The thing to consider is, not every shot in your sequence of 10 is going to come out perfect. I don't believe that happens for any of us. I could be wrong. I know it doesn't happen for me. If I did a burst of 10, chances are at least 1 or 2 would be out if not more.


Canon 1D (MARK III),
10d, Elan IIE (old school), 580exII
70-200 f/2.8L, 17-40 f/4L, 85 1.8, 50 1.8 (nifty)
http://josephcyrphotog​raphy.smugmug.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Palladium
Goldmember
3,905 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Dec 2005
Location: Not the Left Coast but the Right Coast - USA
     
Apr 05, 2011 14:52 as a reply to  @ Palladium's post |  #15

Here's a suggestion that may help you - take the camera off high speed capture and put it on single frame capture.

Take more care in trying to capture the best single frame from each situation.

After 10 games of single frame capture then gradually increase your frame rate capture.

IMO Good Camera technique is when the backgrounds of your capture bursts of basically stationary subjects look identical




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

3,477 views & 0 likes for this thread
Mark III Focus Problems - Please Help!!!
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is dm19dm
1310 guests, 357 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.