Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 06 Apr 2011 (Wednesday) 09:34
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

What ND filter should I use in a bright day with the 50mm f/1.8

 
whoisrikk
Junior Member
20 posts
Joined Feb 2011
     
Apr 06, 2011 09:34 |  #1

Hello everyone,

I'm having really hard moments thinking what ND filter should I use with my future lens, the Canon 50mm f/1.8. I'm looking forward to buy the Nifty Fifty and use it for videos, in bright light but still at f/1.8. As I can't spend too much money buying an adjustable ND filter, I saw a deal buying a set of three filters (ND2, ND4 and ND8). In a sunny day, at 1/50 shutter speed, ISO 100 and f/1.8, will the ND8 filter give me a normal-exposed shot or I need a "darker" filter such as ND30, etc?

Thank you!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Mac
Senior Member
274 posts
Joined Feb 2005
     
Apr 06, 2011 11:58 |  #2

Well, if you follow the Sunny 16 Rule, you are opening up the aperture around 6 stops. Add another stop to open the shutter another stop from 1/100 to 1/50. You need an 6 or 8 stop ND filter. Possibly a fader ND, like the Singh-Ray Vari-ND.


Sean
www.akamac.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
magwai
Goldmember
1,094 posts
Likes: 14
Joined Mar 2010
Location: Guildford, UK
     
Apr 06, 2011 12:18 |  #3

I think you will have real trouble get that lens to refocus at f1.8 if the subjects are moving around.

For something like that you will still get very nice results at f4 and it will focus so much more easily.

I havn't tried this btw, but f1.8 can be hard to get right even for stills.

Good luck with it and I would love to see the results.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
amfoto1
Cream of the Crop
10,249 posts
Likes: 78
Joined Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, California
     
Apr 06, 2011 13:05 |  #4

ISO 100 is the lowest you can set, but why do you feel you can only use 1/50 shutter speed?

And why are you wanting to shoot with the lens wide open? Why not stop down a bit? Most lenses aren't at their best wide open. f2 and f2.8 are better, and by about f5.6 many lenses are at their best IQ.

In most usual situations where an ND would be useful, we aren't trying to both use a low shutter speed and a large aperture. For example, if shooting a portrait on a sunny beach or out in the snow, when there is a lot of light, you might want to use a larger aperture to blur down the background... but would be free to use fast shutter speeds. Alternatively, if you were seeking to blur moving water at the seashore or in a stream/waterfall with a slow shutter speed, normally we'd be using a smaller aperture to get a lot of depth of field. Or, if wanting to pan a moving subject and blur the background, a slow shutter speed would be needed, but the aperture can typically be set smaller.

I'm asking the above questions to try to better understand what you want to accomplish... why you feel you need to do both.

That said, I'd usually steer clear of "filter deals". They are often not very good filters that might make a mess of your images. With ND fitlers, in particular, you have to watch that the filter doesn't add a color cast to your images. There also can be flare problems using cheaper uncoated or single coated filters. And the quality of the glass in a cheap filter can be an issue... cheaper filters might make images soft, can even cause focusing issues.

If you were able to shoot at a higher shutter speed, then it might be possible to use widely available 2-stop or 3-stop ND filter, which can be found in good quality, multi-coated (such as B+W MRC or Pro 0.6 ND or 0.9 ND, or similar)

You can stack ND filters, too. I'd only do this with top quality ones, though. And it can be tridcky or impossible to do on a wide angle lens, where the rim of the filter might cause vignetting. But with a 50mm lens, especially one designed for use on a full frame camera that's being used on a crop sensor camera, this shouldn't be any problem. If you had a 2-stop and a 3-stop ND, use them both to get 5-stops of light reduction.

Of course, there are stronger ND filters available. B+W makes ND 1.8 (6-stops), ND 3.0 (10 stops) and even stronger.

It might be difficult to find much selection of ND that are multi-coated. If you can only get uncoated ones, be certain they are high optical quality and be very sure to use a lens hood to try to avoid any flare (which causes loss of contrast and desaturation of colors). In fact, it's always a good idea to use a lens hood, with or without any filter.

Finally, you might also find a polarizing filter useful. Besides controlling reflections, they can be handy to increase saturation of colors, deepen a blue sky and make clouds "pop", even improve portraits when people have shiny skin or control reflections if they wear eyeglasses. You need a circular polarizer, in particular, with any auto focus camera. A C-Pol, as they are often designated, also reduces light by 1 to 2 stops, depending upon it's setting.

Those variable ND filters are pretty cool... but darned expensive! Some prices I see, in the size you need... 52mm "Fader HD" (I suspect it's not multi-coated, but there's no info anywhere)... are more expensive than your lens! Singh-Ray are even more expensive, but don't make one anywhere close to the size you need.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII(x2), 7D(x2) & other cameras. 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5 Macro, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS (x2), 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, studio strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link) - ZENFOLIO (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
whoisrikk
THREAD ­ STARTER
Junior Member
20 posts
Joined Feb 2011
     
Apr 06, 2011 13:48 |  #5

amfoto1 wrote in post #12170422 (external link)
ISO 100 is the lowest you can set, but why do you feel you can only use 1/50 shutter speed?

And why are you wanting to shoot with the lens wide open? Why not stop down a bit? Most lenses aren't at their best wide open. f2 and f2.8 are better, and by about f5.6 many lenses are at their best IQ.

In most usual situations where an ND would be useful, we aren't trying to both use a low shutter speed and a large aperture. For example, if shooting a portrait on a sunny beach or out in the snow, when there is a lot of light, you might want to use a larger aperture to blur down the background... but would be free to use fast shutter speeds. Alternatively, if you were seeking to blur moving water at the seashore or in a stream/waterfall with a slow shutter speed, normally we'd be using a smaller aperture to get a lot of depth of field. Or, if wanting to pan a moving subject and blur the background, a slow shutter speed would be needed, but the aperture can typically be set smaller.

So I'm asking the above questions to try to better understand what you want to accomplish... why you feel you need to do both.

That said, I'd usually steer clear of "filter deals". They are often not very good filters that might make a mess of your images. With ND fitlers, in particular, you have to watch that the filter doesn't add a color cast to your images. There also can be flare problems using cheaper uncoated or single coated filters. And the quality of the glass in a cheap filter can be an issue... cheaper filters might make images soft, can even cause focusing issues.

If you were able to shoot at a higher shutter speed, then it might be possible to use widely available 2-stop or 3-stop ND filter, which can be found in good quality, multi-coated (such as B+W MRC or Pro 0.6 ND or 0.9 ND, or similar)

You can stack ND filters, too. I'd only do this with top quality ones, though. And it can be tridcky or impossible to do on a wide angle lens, where the rim of the filter might cause vignetting. But with a 50mm lens, especially one designed for use on a full frame camera that's being used on a crop sensor camera, this shouldn't be any problem. If you had a 2-stop and a 3-stop ND, use them both to get 5-stops of light reduction.

Of course, there are stronger ND filters available. B+W makes ND 1.8 (6-stops), ND 3.0 (10 stops) and even stronger.

It might be difficult to find much selection of ND that are multi-coated. If you can only get uncoated ones, be certain they are high optical quality and be very sure to use a lens hood to try to avoid any flare (which causes loss of contrast and desaturation of colors). In fact, it's always a good idea to use a lens hood, with or without any filter.

Finally, you might also find a polarizing filter useful. Besides controlling reflections, they can be handy to increase saturation of colors, deepen a blue sky and make clouds "pop", even improve portraits when people have shiny skin or control reflections if they wear eyeglasses. You need a circular polarizer, in particular, with any auto focus camera. A C-Pol, as they are often designated, also reduces light by 1 to 2 stops, depending upon it's setting.

Those variable ND filters are pretty cool... but darned expensive! Some prices I see, in the size you need... 52mm "Fader HD" (I suspect it's not multi-coated, but there's no info anywhere)... are more expensive than your lens! Singh-Ray are even more expensive, but don't make one anywhere close to the size you need.

I want to shoot at 1/50 as I'm talking about VIDEOGRAPHY, shooting videos, and I need to shoot at 1/50 @ 24 fps. Thank you so much for the explanation!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
amfoto1
Cream of the Crop
10,249 posts
Likes: 78
Joined Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, California
     
Apr 06, 2011 14:36 |  #6

whoisrikk wrote in post #12170688 (external link)
I want to shoot at 1/50 as I'm talking about VIDEOGRAPHY, shooting videos, and I need to shoot at 1/50 @ 24 fps. Thank you so much for the explanation!

Ahhhh! Cool, that makes sense (I don't shoot video much). Yes, you'll need an ND filter to do it. I bet 6 or 8 stop would handle it. But you can calculate it yourself...

On a bright sunny day the "Sunny 16 rule" gives us a starting point...

That "rule" says that on a normally bright day you can get a pretty accurate exposure manually by setting f16, then whatever ISO you want to use, then set the shutter speed that's the reciprocal of the ISO (i.e., with ISO 100, use 1/100, with ISO 400 use 1/400 shutter, etc.)

You want to use 1/50 shutter, but the camera's lowest ISO is 100 and it's reciprocal would be 1/100. So you need to "lose" one stop to start with.

From f16 to f1.8 is another 6-1/3 stops difference (f16 > f11 > f8 > f5.6 > f4 > f2.8 > f2, plus another third stop to f1.8).

That's a total of 7-1/3 stops of light total, that you need to "lose". An 8-stop filter, if you can find one, would be slightly too much (you could use a 2-stop filter combined with a 6-stop, then you'd need to increase ISO from 100 to 160, to fine tune exposure). A 10-stop filter (ND 3.0) is more widely available, but would overly strong and require using a significantly higher ISO (640) to compensate.

A 6-stop filter (ND 1.8) would be the closest choice, but to dial in the exposure would require you close down the aperture by 1-1/3 stop (to f2.8).

This assumes that you're shooting outside on a normally bright, sunny day. Any sort of overcast, or early or late in the day, or shooting in the shade the 6-stop filter might be too strong. You can offset that by increasing ISO. Or, instead, 2-stop (ND 0.6) and 3-stop (ND 0.9) might be combined for a total of 5-stops, meaning you'd use f4 aperture (at ISO 100) on a bright sunny day. With this setup you could still use either of the filters singly, when it's less bright.

This is when one of those variable filters starts to look more attractive! (Most seem to cover a 2-stop to 8-stop range.)

I'm still not certain why/if you want to or if you really need to use the lens wide open... Stopping it down a bit you might reduce the strength of ND filter needed. For example, if you stopped down to f4.5, you could use a 6-stop filter. At f6.3 you'd need 5-stop and at f9.0 you could use 4-stops worth of filter. Your lens's optical performance is probably at it's very best around f4 or f5.6. So unless you're also trying to get a really shallow depth of field effect, you'd better off stopping down for several reasons.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII(x2), 7D(x2) & other cameras. 10-22mm, Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5 Macro, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS (x2), 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, studio strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link) - ZENFOLIO (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jwcdds
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
14,597 posts
Gallery: 1636 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 4409
Joined Aug 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
     
Apr 06, 2011 15:55 |  #7

I don't know much about videography either, but what's to prevent you from shooting a 24fps video using manual settings like:

1/4000s, f/1.8, iso100? What happens to the video?

I ask because I randomly shoot short video clips of my son doing silly things and I range anywhere from f/1.2-1.4 @ 1/50 iso400/800, to sometimes just quickly switching over to video while having my settings in Manual mode (from shooting stills) with f/1.2-f/1.2 @ 1/250 iso1600. And video clips come out just fine (as far as I can tell at least).


Julian
Gear/Feedbacks | SmugMug (external link) | Flickr (external link) | Blog (external link) | Instagram (external link) | YouTube (external link)
My Reviews | "The Mighty One" (external link) | "EF 85mm f/1.4 L IS Review" (external link)
Founding member and President of the BOGUS Photo Club (Blatantly-Over-Geared & Under-Skilled)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
1Tanker
Goldmember
Avatar
4,470 posts
Likes: 5
Joined Jan 2011
Location: Swaying to the Symphony of Destruction
     
Apr 06, 2011 17:42 as a reply to  @ jwcdds's post |  #8

I bought a 3 filter kit off eBay..Hoya ND 2/4/8(all 3 for ~$94CAD :D ), and they work great. Umm. i also have the 9-stop ND400, and the VF get's REAL dark..i would imagine the LCD would as well, while shooting video. :confused: I don't use video on my T2i enough to know about it though.


Kel
Gear

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jwcdds
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
14,597 posts
Gallery: 1636 photos
Best ofs: 5
Likes: 4409
Joined Aug 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
     
Apr 06, 2011 17:46 |  #9

I think shooting via LiveView (w/ exposure simulation turned on) will actually get you a usable picture and not appear dark.


Julian
Gear/Feedbacks | SmugMug (external link) | Flickr (external link) | Blog (external link) | Instagram (external link) | YouTube (external link)
My Reviews | "The Mighty One" (external link) | "EF 85mm f/1.4 L IS Review" (external link)
Founding member and President of the BOGUS Photo Club (Blatantly-Over-Geared & Under-Skilled)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
bohdank
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
14,060 posts
Likes: 6
Joined Jan 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada
     
Apr 06, 2011 18:58 |  #10

Good luck (follow) focusing at f1.8


Bohdan - I may be, and probably am, completely wrong.
Gear List

Montreal Concert, Event and Portrait Photographer (external link)
Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Delija
Goldmember
Avatar
1,095 posts
Joined Jan 2009
     
Apr 06, 2011 20:46 |  #11

bohdank wrote in post #12172624 (external link)
Good luck (follow) focusing at f1.8

Can be done, but not without a film making crew. Endeavoring to make "movies" as a sole effort - one person with a camera, is really not possible (IMO)...I have about 40 years of experience in the motion picture industry (including several years in live TV). I have three still cameras and have had countless cell phones capable of taking videos and never used the feature. With one humorous exception when I was with a friend and we returned to his car to find a gigantic peacock at home on the roof of his car.

I have no idea where that clip is if it still exists. Probably left on a micro SD card on a long abandoned cell phone.

But give it a try.

The suggestion of a polarizing filter is a good one...a CPL is often very useful when shooting outdoors and cannot have it's effects mimicked by software like virtually any other type of filter.


Peace,
D.


Wow, what a nice picture! You must have a really great camera!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
RobDickinson
Goldmember
3,976 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 992
Joined Apr 2010
Location: New Zealand
     
Apr 06, 2011 20:48 |  #12

If your getting a 50/1.8 then buy the mk1.

The mk2 is hideous for manual focus, the mk1 is much much better.


www.HeroWorkshops.com (external link) - www.rjd.co.nz (external link) - www.zarphag.com (external link)
Gear: A7r, 6D, Irix 15mmf2.4 , canon 16-35f4L, Canon 24mm TS-E f3.5 mk2, Sigma 50mm art, 70-200f2.8L, 400L. Lee filters, iOptron IPano, Emotimo TB3, Markins, Feisol, Novoflex, Sirui. etc.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
whoisrikk
THREAD ­ STARTER
Junior Member
20 posts
Joined Feb 2011
     
Apr 07, 2011 05:18 |  #13

jwcdds wrote in post #12171442 (external link)
I don't know much about videography either, but what's to prevent you from shooting a 24fps video using manual settings like:

1/4000s, f/1.8, iso100? What happens to the video?

I ask because I randomly shoot short video clips of my son doing silly things and I range anywhere from f/1.2-1.4 @ 1/50 iso400/800, to sometimes just quickly switching over to video while having my settings in Manual mode (from shooting stills) with f/1.2-f/1.2 @ 1/250 iso1600. And video clips come out just fine (as far as I can tell at least).

You must shoot videos at 1/50 shutter speed when shooting at 24fps because of the 180 rule. You have to double the framerate and you get the exact shutter speed you need. Using another shutter speed than 1/50 at 24 fps, 1/60 at 30 fps and 1/120 at 60 fps will result in a very unnatural and ugly motion blur.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ender78
Senior Member
Avatar
466 posts
Joined Oct 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
     
Apr 07, 2011 06:03 |  #14

For video, a variable ND filter is the best from what I have read. This will give you that fine control. The Fader ND is about $250. There will be cases where one, you need to adjust the filter quickly or two, you need a lot less than two stops of light to correct a scene. You need a variable ND filter for video.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
whoisrikk
THREAD ­ STARTER
Junior Member
20 posts
Joined Feb 2011
     
Apr 07, 2011 06:06 |  #15

ender78 wrote in post #12175151 (external link)
For video, a variable ND filter is the best from what I have read. This will give you that fine control. The Fader ND is about $250. There will be cases where one, you need to adjust the filter quickly or two, you need a lot less than two stops of light to correct a scene. You need a variable ND filter for video.

Thank you so much, exactly the information I needed!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

16,380 views & 0 likes for this thread
What ND filter should I use in a bright day with the 50mm f/1.8
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
814 guests, 356 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.