Ebay Dispute help?

Hello all,

I recently sold a Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 on Ebay. I advertised it an "AS-IS. NO RETURNS" Auction. This is the description:

"This lens has been used. It is 100% fully functional and sharp. The lens body is in fine shape, there is only one very superficial scuff that's hard to find. But the glass is another story. The front element is in fine shape, but has a few very small hairline scratches, they're only seen in the right light. The back element is scratch-free. BUT the inside has, what appears to be a lot of dust. It is not fungus, but there are some large specks in there. They do not affect the image quality. It's hard to photograph the dust on the inside, unless you're at the right angle. UM Date code, so it's from 1998.

Included: Lens, box, front & rear lens caps, and warranty card.

I'd keep this, but have this focal range covered.

I'm selling AS-IS. NO RETURNS. "

Now, the seller (two weeks later) wants to be reimbursed for the lens. He said: "I had the lens examined by a local subject-matter-expert. It was at that point; a red flag was raised concerning issues with the glass. There appears to be fungus on the lens." (Appears to be, even the 'expert is not sure) He then contacts me stating he wants to return the lens and be reimbursed the full amount.

Considering I advertised this as a lens with problems and NO RETURNS, I said "Dear -------, I'm sorry you're not pleased with the Canon 24mm f/2.8 lens. I was upfront about the issues regarding this lens. I'm no expert, and could not diagnose the particulates as fungus (I honestly did not know). Sadly, according to my auction, this is an As-Is, No Return transaction. The lens was fully functioning and sharp and the specks didn't have any ill effects on the lens. I'm very sorry if you are unhappy about the purchase, but I can not reimburse you for the lens or accept a return.

He has now opened up a case with Ebay, seeking 1/2 the repair cost for a lens cleaning. This is where I'm at, negative PayPal account balance and an open case with Ebay. I don't feel like I should be responsible for him not reading the fine print.

So my options are: Reimburse him the full price, get the lens back. Pay him $49 for half the cleaning fees. Or escalate this to Ebay's Resolution Center.

I would let ebay resolution center take it and make the decision. Worst case scenario they make you do one of the things you have mentioned. In the mean time that guy will have to wait. IMHO I think ebay will side with you as your auction clearly stated the issues with the lens and that no returns would be allowed. Good luck and let us know what happens.

I think if it turns out to be fungus, than you statement "It is not fungus" is not true and you should take the lens back or pay for part of the repair.

If it is truly dust, then I think your description was accurate and you were very clear about the condition.

Miklebud wrote in post #12282514
I advertised it an "AS-IS. NO RETURNS" Auction.

Selling an item on eBay "AS-IS. NO RETURNS", to someone who can't see the item until AFTER they've bought it, will only cause you grief. eBay and PayPal's buyer protection policies override your terms, and the buyer can return the item for a full refund. It has to be this way, or sellers could deliberately mis-describe a piece of crap and rip off their buyers.

If you want to sell "AS-IS, NO RETURNS", use Craigslist, so the buyer can look at the item before buying.

eBay doesn't accept the as is no returns line...if he can get someone to say that there is a possibility that it is fungus then u r sol

moose10101 wrote in post #12282695
Selling an item on eBay "AS-IS. NO RETURNS", to someone who can't see the item until AFTER they've bought it, will only cause you grief. eBay and PayPal's buyer protection policies override your terms, and the buyer can return the item for a full refund. It has to be this way, or sellers could deliberately mis-describe a piece of crap and rip off their buyers.

If you want to sell "AS-IS, NO RETURNS", use Craigslist, so the buyer can look at the item before buying.

I disagree. If something says "As-is, no returns", you, as a buyer, know that going in. If you're willing to accept the risk, that's on you. If you're not comfortable w/ the risk, don't buy it. You're getting the item at a discounted price because it has issues. Nobody is making you buy something.

But with pay pal and eBay terms it doesn't matter what the seller says, there is always a return policy

If it is fungus, and you, as a seller, through ordinary care, could or should have known that, then you should take it back. (You fail this test, as you assert it is not fungus, implying that not only did you know what that is, but what it is not)

If the buyer discovers that the item is not as advertised, then you should take it back.

Where you have wiggle room, now, is the buyer's behavior indicates he has repaired the item and intends to keep it.

So, ask for the repair slip and a report from the repair shop saying it was fungus. If it was, give up the money and consider yourself lucky, since fungus is permanent, and it will come back.

What did you learn? If you cannot yourself understand the condition of high-end items that you are selling, you're more likely to lose than win, even if you say no returns.

Mk1Racer wrote in post #12282741
I disagree. If something says "As-is, no returns", you, as a buyer, know that going in. If you're willing to accept the risk, that's on you. If you're not comfortable w/ the risk, don't buy it. You're getting the item at a discounted price because it has issues. Nobody is making you buy something.

Yes, of course you arte getting it at a discounted price because it has issues, but the price paid has been bid according to the description given and it still has to fit that description. If you say something doesn't work and "you think" it may be "xxxxx" but "could be something else", and it is sold "as-is" you have covered yourself even if it turns out to be something more expensive to fix. The buyer has bought an item, knowing it doesn't work, and with an unkown fault. They can't turn around and say "it isn't working, I want a refund".

If, on the other hand, you sell it as not working but "it's just xxxx, a cheap and easy problem to fix", then the buyer finds that the fault is actually something else more terminal, or is going to cost a lot to fix, then they do have a right to a refund as the description was wrong and misleading, they bid on an item with a specific fault, when it was actually something else.

In this case, the seller stated categorically that it "is not fungus", if it turns out that it does have fungus, then that overides the "as - is, no returns" disclaimer as it does not match the description. Had the seller put "I do not believe it is fungus, but I am not an expert", they would be covered.

You do get the option on ebay (at least here in the UK) to set a 'returns policy' when placing a listing. However, a buyer can always return an item that is significantly not as described, regardless of returns policy. It is up to the seller to describe the item accurately and carefully, so long as they do then the buyer cannot return the item unless the seller agrees.

A classic example that was publicised some time ago was the person who thought they had bid on a playstation and complained when they got an empty box. The seller pointed out that the advert showed a picture of the box (no playstation) and clearly stated it was for a "playstation box" in both the title and description, he had also started the listing at just £1 or so, which was a reasonable price for a playstation box. The buyer (and presumably at least one other bidder) hadn't read the description properly and bid for a playstation. Had the description read "playstation, box", they would have been able to claim a refund, but without the comma they got what was described.

If this is going to cost you 49 bucks, have him clean it and pay for half of it. See it from his perspective. First off, a large dust particle very well could be fungus. Fungi ruin lenses and they get worse as time goes on, where as dust particles do not grow. If I had received this lens, I would expect the same.

Also, u let yourself open when u said the dust particles did not affect image quality. All the buyer would have to do is say that they do affect iq and they win the dispute

duane0524 wrote in post #12282567
I think if it turns out to be fungus, than you statement "It is not fungus" is not true and you should take the lens back or pay for part of the repair.

If it is truly dust, then I think your description was accurate and you were very clear about the condition.

Yep. I agree. Your description implies that you guarantee that it's not fungus.

Let's hope the buyer is honest and didn't simply buy this auction knowing that he/she can score a few bucks off this listing by 'proving' the dust particles are actually fungi... Evidence from an authorized lens cleaner/repair would be strongly suggested especially when dealing with a variety of people in the world of FleeBay...

Personally I would always give 3 day for returns. Thay way you have a leg to stand on when there is a dispute.

Mk1Racer wrote in post #12282741
I disagree. If something says "As-is, no returns", you, as a buyer, know that going in. If you're willing to accept the risk, that's on you. If you're not comfortable w/ the risk, don't buy it. You're getting the item at a discounted price because it has issues. Nobody is making you buy something.

Your disagreement is noted. It's also of no help to the OP, who is bound by eBay/PayPal rules. Failure to agree to a refund upon return of the lens will only result in a dispute against his record, a reversal of the transaction by eBay or PayPal, and possible negative feedback and low DSR scores.

BTW, the discounted price did not account for fungus, which the seller said was not present, and is NOT part of the risk the buyer decided to take on.

There is no such thing as 'no returns' on eBay. Most SNAD claims are decided in the favor of the buyer. If that is indeed fungus then your item is indeed significantly not as described.