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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 28 Apr 2011 (Thursday) 07:56
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Power solutions for 430EX II ?

 
shankarhokie
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Apr 29, 2011 10:26 as a reply to  @ post 12310398 |  #31

From the Canon website

Recycling Time Approx. 0.1 to 3.7 seconds (AA-size Alkaline Batteries)/0.1 to 2 seconds (AA-size Ni-MH batteries)

Also, have you considered the YN560? For $65, it is a great flash

here is a comparison to 580

http://speedlights.net …yn-560-vs-canon-580ex-ii/ (external link)


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m.shalaby
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Apr 29, 2011 10:31 as a reply to  @ post 12316257 |  #32

I just got off the phone with Thomas Distributing, spoke to the owner.

He stated the NiZN is going away and the company is going out of business. Its a technology thats not working out.

Looks like MAH it is!




  
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dbdors
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Apr 29, 2011 10:38 |  #33

m.shalaby wrote in post #12316318 (external link)
I just got off the phone with Thomas Distributing, spoke to the owner.

He stated the NiZN is going away and the company is going out of business. Its a technology thats not working out.

Looks like MAH it is!

Interesting.


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m.shalaby
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Apr 29, 2011 10:42 |  #34

dbdors wrote in post #12316357 (external link)
Interesting.

yeah, i found that to be interesting too..

he also had an irritated tone because of the stock he is still sitting on, lol...


welp, glad I went with the choice I did.




  
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rhys216
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Apr 29, 2011 11:33 |  #35
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Uh, it actually just makes me want to buy a load of Nizn, it's ideal for flashes. It must just be the fast discharge issue that doesn't make it suitable for a wider market.

Edit:

Although it's not as easy for me as I would need to import them.

Edit 2:
Hopefully the technology will come back, if another company can improve the 'R' so they don't self discharge as much, although performance might be a little slower, which might be a good thing.




  
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cristphoto
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Apr 29, 2011 18:09 |  #36

The 4xx series can't readily use a battery pack. This requires a 5xx series flash. When I use my 580's or 550's with the Canon battery pack I get slightly quicker recycle but I get many more flashes per battery set. This comes in handy for full day events such as weddings. I've found I get the fastest recycle by using Eveready Lithium batteries (non-rechargeable). The only downside operation wise is the "quick death" Lithiums suffer. I've experimented with every possible battery type and still prefer a good hi-amp rechargeable NIMH. The Eneloops are a decent design but I don't get the same number of flashes per charge as the NIMH (the Eneloop ampacity is lower). For my style shooting I find this a negative. I have no problem charging my cells before a shoot while I prepare my equipment. Also FWIW I've had excellent performance from the LaCrosse chargers. They don't tend to overheat the cells like lesser chargers. I threw my Maha chargers away as they tended to burn up the cells. The newest Maha's are better though. Finally for great info on the Canon flash system probably the best book is Speedliters Handbook by Syl Arena. It goes from novice level to complex multi-flash wireless, plus reflectors and all accessories. Great illustrations for portrait lighting too. A worthwhile read. Good luck.


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shankarhokie
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Apr 29, 2011 20:10 |  #37

dbdors wrote in post #12316257 (external link)
I think you have it right.

Again, I am not battery or electronics expert, I'm only going by what I've and understood from looking at the numbers.

Voltage = IR. I = Current and R = Internal resistance.

NiMH, NiCd both have low R and thus have a higher current. Even though the voltage is lower, they have a higher current and thus the faster recycle. As I understand the NiMH have even lower R (thus the low self discharge), which would mean a bit higher current.

The NiZn, must have an even lower R as it would appear that they have a high voltage and even higher current (I).

The alkalines have high voltage, but higher resistance and thus lower current, and slowest recycle time.

Maybe somebody who knows how this really works can clean this up for me :lol:


That would be correct

http://strobist.blogsp​ot.com/2007/09/feed.ht​ml (external link)


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fivegallon
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Apr 29, 2011 20:38 |  #38

m.shalaby wrote in post #12316064 (external link)
Thats what I've read at the strobist.com.... but my point is they are 1.6v. so are regular ol' Alkalines! lol.... so really, using these MAH batteries, were taking a step back in recycle times... no?

m.shalaby, just a bit of info for you:

NiMH - Nickel-Metal Hydride = A type of battery/construction
NiZN - Nickel-Zinc = A type of battery/construction
NiCD - Nickel Cadmium = A type of battery/construction

maH - milli-ampere hours = capacity rating of a battery

Every battery has a maH rating, regardless of whether it is displayed or not. It is a mathematical computation.
(think of it the same as - how big is my bucket)


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shankarhokie
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Apr 29, 2011 20:42 |  #39

fivegallon wrote in post #12319252 (external link)
m.shalaby, just a bit of info for you:

NiMH - Nickel-Metal Hydride = A type of battery/construction
NiZN - Nickel-Zinc = A type of battery/construction
NiCD - Nickel Cadmium = Atype of battery/construction

maH - milli-ampere hours = capacity rating of a battery

Every battery has a maH rating, regardless of whether it is displayed or not. It is a mathematical computation.
(think of it the same as - how big is my bucket)

from that link I posted

First, "mAH" matters. mAH stands for miliamp-hours, and it tells you how much power the little guys can hold. All things being equal, go for the higher number. In fact, I would say get at least 2500 mAH batteries. Unless you see 2750's, in which case buy them. They are so cheap over the long haul that you may as well buy yourself more capacity.


To be sure, Ni-MH's are at a disadvantage in the voltage department. But voltage is not the only thing that matters in recycling a flash. When that flash is chirping away and you are waiting for the little light to turn red, what a flash needs is current. And NiMH's deliver current in spades.

Think of two hoses, with the first having a little more water pressure than the second. But the first one is a garden hose, and the second is a fire hose. The fire hose may have slightly less water pressure, but it can still deliver more water per second. Ditto the Ni-MH battery with current.


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fivegallon
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Apr 29, 2011 20:57 |  #40

shankarhokie wrote in post #12319267 (external link)
from that link I posted

Hi Shankar,

I'm unable to access the external link you posted (work restriction - blog)and was simply referencing what was in this thread and m.shalaby's apparent confusion.
m.shalaby may/not have the same access issue, either way its simpler for the info to be here.
The battery confusion and misinformation was getting worse as the thread progressed.
I'm not debating which is better, just helping to define misconceptions.

For me personally i would probably go with an Al Jacobs Black Box, but they are quite pricey especially after adding in the appropriate cable for your flash/es.
The black box may not have the speedy recycle time, but its less likely to fry a flash.
Some people concentrate solely on speed (which is partly understandable depending on their subject) without considering the consequences.
If i had that need for speed, i would carry a second flash so i could alternate between the two and allow the hot one time to cool down between bursts.

btw, thanks for the link ;)
will check it out after work


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shankarhokie
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Apr 29, 2011 21:04 |  #41

fivegallon wrote in post #12319319 (external link)
Hi Shankar,

I'm unable to access the external link you posted (work restriction - blog)and was simply referencing what was in this thread and m.shalaby's apparent confusion.
m.shalaby may/not have the same access issue, either way its simpler for the info to be here.
The battery confusion and misinformation was getting worse as the thread progressed.
I'm not debating which is better, just helping to define misconceptions.

For me personally i would probably go with an Al Jacobs Black Box, but they are quite pricey especially after adding in the appropriate cable for your flash/es.
The black box may not have the speedy recycle time, but its less likely to fry a flash.
Some people concentrate solely on speed (which is partly understandable depending on their subject) without considering the consequences.
If i had that need for speed, i would carry a second flash so i could alternate between the two and allow the hot one time to cool down between bursts.

btw, thanks for the link ;)
will check it out after work

HI 5gallon... I was just reinforcing your message not debating it...


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fivegallon
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Apr 29, 2011 21:16 |  #42

shankarhokie wrote in post #12319267 (external link)
from that link I posted

shankarhokie wrote in post #12319344 (external link)
HI 5gallon... I was just reinforcing your message not debating it...

haha, no worries mate, wasn't sure of your angle... ;)

it's funny, so many topics on this forum lately turn into debates way too quickly

i tend to choose my words more carefully these days to avoid any of that, i save my fightin' words for the clowns i work for! haha

there's so much good info on these forums it gets frustrating when it goes downhill rapidly


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Apr 29, 2011 21:52 |  #43

I have two sets of Sanyos for each of my speed lights.

If I know I have a shoot coming up, I might toss three sets into the chargers ahead of time. (I have two power strips with 4x4 chargers)

I rattled off 400+ pops on a set of Eneloops one day. These were at medium to low power. There was enough left to give me a few weeks of home use (~100 more pops) before swapping them out.

LSD = Low resistance = High Current Discharge = Fast recycle times.


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Power solutions for 430EX II ?
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