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Thread started 02 May 2011 (Monday) 17:59
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My 7D is back from Canon

 
gabebalazs
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May 05, 2011 23:00 |  #136

treebound wrote in post #12355955 (external link)
Actually you might be onto something. Mechanical assemblies have tolerance and tolerance stack-up. If your camera is on the small end of the tolerance range, or rather a smaller flange and larger gap, and if your lens is similarly within specification but at the edge of an acceptable dimensional tolerance range, then everytime you change the lens it might shift or settle into a different position. I don't know if a few thousand'ths or +/-.003mm would make a difference in the camera focusing function, but it does seem like a plausible reason why camera 1 does good and camera 2 does variably good/marginal/bad. I do some mechanical design and have had to chase down issues like tolerance stack-up issues before, trust me that it ain't no fun chasing random problems.

Probably not the issue, but the potential is there for it to be a contributing factor.

Good luck.

that's an absolutely valid point. However, that does not explain the inconsistency between shots taken 2 seconds apart of the same subject, same lens, same settings.
Again, I'm suspecting something mechanical too such as an improperly working mirror mechanism. If, for some reason, the mirror does not return to it's proper position after a shot, the next shot's AF could be compromised and may result in a blurry picture due to inaccurate AF.
Does the 7D have a unique mirror/shutter mechanism? Since it sounds different from the 40D/50D/60D and of course the Rebels, it may be a one of a kind (to help achieve the 8 fps) and perhaps it's not without flaws. So my theory is that the AF electronics may be functioning properly but perhaps there is something mechanically wrong with certain 7D due to subpar QC.
Who knows...:rolleyes:

Bottom line, I still believe that the 7D is a great camera and I didn't have many problems with mine. It's just that when I did have OOF pictures, it was unexplainable. And the last couple of days, after a trip to Canon, it became worse.


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May 06, 2011 06:47 |  #137

Hitthespot wrote in post #12353804 (external link)
Well please please enlighten all of us so we can all get on with shooting perfect pictures with our 7D's !

Nothing quite like putting words in people's mouths. I never mentioned perfect pictures. I specifically stated that I was NOT saying that the problems reported here were not real, nor that they were due to user error. I simply reported my experiences, which have been echoed by many 7D users posting on POTN.


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May 06, 2011 07:16 |  #138

KenjiS wrote in post #12354057 (external link)
The entire attitude of the people who are coming into the threads when someone has an issue is sickening me to be honest, To the point i dont even want to deal with it anymore :rolleyes:

Again, if you read my message you will see that I explicitly stated that I was not judging the veracity of the claims made by those of you in this thread, nor was I saying that your problems are due to user error. However, I did report my experience, in which very similar results were due to user error. I am sorry that this sickens you. Another poster, perhaps toungue-in-cheek, stated that this thread proved this or that about the 7D focus system. This thread does no such thing, and that was my point.

Actually, the first message that I was going to post in this thread was going to be about the entire attitude of people who disparage the knowledge, ability and intelligence of those who find, in their own experience with the 7D, that they either have no problems with it, or that they were able to overcome the types of problems described here by changing how they used the camera. These same people hijhack threads started by satisfied users, trying to point out that all the happy posters must be wrong because their copy isn't working for them.


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May 06, 2011 07:28 |  #139

kcbrown wrote in post #12354363 (external link)
You realize I was saying that tongue-in-cheek, right?"

I suspected that, but in these 7D threads you just never know.

kcbrown wrote in post #12354363 (external link)
But if the camera can't even consistently focus on a the side of a house (with detail to focus on, of course) or something equivalent in good light and in one-shot mode, then something's wrong. Period. I don't care what focus mode you're in as long as it's something other than "all points".

No arguing with that. That camera body has very serious problems. But you can't paint the entire model run with the same brush when there is so much evidence for excellent results with the 7D (see the "7D users post your results here," or whatever it's called, thread). However, some people seem to want to do that. Perhaps the "failure" rate of the 7D AF system is far greater than what should be expected. I don't know. I do know that sometimes the problem is user error, and saying this seems to really offend some people.


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May 06, 2011 07:31 |  #140

pknight wrote in post #12358023 (external link)
Again, if you read my message you will see that I explicitly stated that I was not judging the veracity of the claims made by those of you in this thread, nor was I saying that your problems are due to user error. However, I did report my experience, in which very similar results were due to user error. I am sorry that this sickens you. Another poster, perhaps toungue-in-cheek, stated that this thread proved this or that about the 7D focus system. This thread does no such thing, and that was my point.

Actually, the first message that I was going to post in this thread was going to be about the entire attitude of people who disparage the knowledge, ability and intelligence of those who find, in their own experience with the 7D, that they either have no problems with it, or that they were able to overcome the types of problems described here by changing how they used the camera. These same people hijhack threads started by satisfied users, trying to point out that all the happy posters must be wrong because their copy isn't working for them.

Wasnt directed at you man...


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May 06, 2011 08:34 as a reply to  @ KenjiS's post |  #141

Add me to the list :rolleyes:
Did a test today on a tripod, one shot mode, now if i hit the focus once and check in live view it is clearly OOF if i then come out of live view and pump the focus 3-5 times and re-check in live view it's perfect.
This was done in all focus modes and i even got my old 40d out and that was perfect.




  
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gordholio
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May 06, 2011 09:25 |  #142

All I can say at this point is that I know MY camera is bad. When I took my 7D back to the store where I purchased it yesterday, so they could send it back to Canon, I took the liberty of taking a series of back to back pics with my 7D and a 7D in the store. The difference was night and day. I'd already determined unequivocably that mine sucked when I did my 60D vs 7D test the other night, but putting it up against another 7D was even more interesting.

Ultimately, my salesperson asked me to give it a couple of days so he can speak with his manager. He's going to see if he can just replace the camera - which would be very cool. And that's the advantage of buying an extended warranty. Funny, I don't buy extended warranties on anything, expect I did when I bought the 7D. Lucky me. So far, they replaced the very first 7D I bought from them because it was *exceedingly* soft, they've sent this one back to Canon once, and now they have to deal with me again.

On the way home, I stopped by two other camera stores just to try THEIR 7Ds. The first store didn't have one available, but the salesperson had a nice chat with me. Turns out he bought a 7D when it first was released, and has had EXACTLY the same experience as me. He's now on his second 7D, which has been sent back to Canon TWICE, and he's still not pleased. He said just the same thing I've been saying - it makes him doubt his ability as a photographer to take good pics.

The fellow at the second store wasn't quite so negative, though he did say that ever sicne the 7D appeared on the scene, he's personally felt it's "soft."

My quandary now: If my store decides to replace my camera, do I go for another 7D? I love what the camera theoretically does - especially the burst rate - and clearly it works for most buyers. But what if I get ANOTHER lemon?

I'll of course keep you posted.




  
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May 06, 2011 09:37 |  #143

I dunno mate...I know if i had gone through all you have i probably wouldnt bother at this point, the only issue is what else to get

Heck i dont even wanna send mine off to Canon at the moment..I was contemplating switching to Nikon in fact because theres no other Canon bodies that suit what I do....but im on the fence about doing that

I AM trying to see if i can make my 7D work a little bit better with the 100-400, I actually did find that the 100-400 needed a little MA...that doesnt fix the unpredictable focus and the thing just struggling to lock focus however...it just hopefully means if i can get it to focus on my target it should be a little sharper (IE, the MA is not the entirety of the problem obviously..and its a VERY small amount)

-edit- just saying that im trying other options, if anything else to "live" with the 7D until the 7D Mark II comes out...

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May 06, 2011 10:13 |  #144

Kenji, like I said before, the best working lens on my 7D is my 100-400L. But of course it works awesome on my 60D too :) Pretty sharp too, I shoot wide open most of the time, sharpness is very good (for 18mp).

By the way, update: I just dropped off my 7D and 17-55 IS at UPS, heading for Canon again.


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May 06, 2011 10:14 |  #145

^- on mine my 100-400 has the worst time finding focus (IE hunts a ton) and when it nailed focus it was far from an impressive performer...or it was nailing focus on the wrong thing (Different than MA..its hard to explain...Technically that adjustment was in the WRONG direction from what i saw in most photos)

Im hoping that the MFA -helps- a bit, Though the problems with the camera locking onto things behind the subject and hunting a ton are still going to be the 7D's fault...

Though thinking about it, the MA that i did will possibly make the images worse when the 7D slips up and focuses on the background o_O...


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May 06, 2011 11:17 |  #146

I definitely see what you guys are talking about here. The 7D is missing focus by about 4" to a foot or so, viewed on 100% crops. But I also have a bit of a hard time not seeing that as normal focus performance. I have alway thought AF will get you close, maybe right there with a second press. But I rarely blame the AF system unless it is consistently off, not if it's inconsistent. If it's inconsistent that tells me it's certainly able to achieve good focus. Although, you do say other cameras are focusing better so you definitely may have a point.

Kenji I know you've been around a long time and are an accomplished photographer. One of your last statements is: "Though the problems with the camera locking onto things behind the subject and hunting are still going to be the 7D's fault..." I have alway thought that to be a general flaw, or impossible goal for AF. Unless the subject fills the AF sensor, or really, fills most of the frame, how is the camera to know that the little bud in front is your subject? Especially when it has that big juicy contrasty branch behind it that's really easy to focus on?


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May 06, 2011 11:58 |  #147

Just to add, as if there wasn't enough bad info on 7d's. My gf and I both bought 7d's but from different stores. My 7d appeared to be soft, whereas her 7d was spot on. We both had the same 28-135mm lenses but I didn't think about swapping lenses to test. Well, after a bit of arguing at the store, it was replaced. The new one is a lot better, but I'm still not convinced it's 100%. I really need to have her camera to compare.


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May 06, 2011 12:08 |  #148

I say switch cameras with your GF. Chances are good she won't even know... and chances are equally good that she wouldn't care. I'm generalizing here but most women don't care much about sharpness at the pixel-level. They look at pictures for content. Sorta what pictures were originally intended for. :D


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May 06, 2011 12:11 |  #149

*cough* sexist *cough*

But yeah, pretty much true, at least for the women I know.




  
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May 06, 2011 14:50 |  #150

pknight wrote in post #12358069 (external link)
No arguing with that. That camera body has very serious problems. But you can't paint the entire model run with the same brush when there is so much evidence for excellent results with the 7D (see the "7D users post your results here," or whatever it's called, thread).

I certainly agree. But then, that very same thing was said about the 1Dmk3.

However, some people seem to want to do that. Perhaps the "failure" rate of the 7D AF system is far greater than what should be expected. I don't know. I do know that sometimes the problem is user error, and saying this seems to really offend some people.

Yeah. And again, same deal with the 1Dmk3. I think for the 7D it's a bit more of a problem, though, because there's a larger number of relatively inexperienced people using the 7D versus the 1Dmk3, so the chance that the problem is user error is higher.

But when experienced photographers have trouble with the 7D, especially when they have experience with the 1D series, then don't you think it's time to sit up and take notice?


For the record, I don't seem to be having any of these troubles with my camera, but I'm not using the same lenses as the people here, either. My Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS is generally spot-on, though, and it's fairly comparable to the 17-55 IS.


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My 7D is back from Canon
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