Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 16 May 2011 (Monday) 09:21
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

What am I doing wrong

 
five0.4tluv
Member
112 posts
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Austin
     
May 16, 2011 09:21 |  #1

I had my son's 7th bday party yesterday. Here is an example of the outcome of most of the pics ~225. I've got about 25 keepers. 40d, EF-S 15-85 430EXII. I also had my IS turned off.

I think my main issue was shooting wide-open but then I would have needed to bump the ISO even more to get enough light even with the flash. I tried some at f6.3/f8.0 before anyone got there and they were way dark.

I really think overall I need a faster lens for this type of indoor shot and the 15-85 just can't cut it for fast action. I'm also not certain my 40d AF is not up to par. I've got some shots done by the wife ( I put in Auto mode for her) and the AF did not seem to work well. Maybe there is just too many objects in the frame for the 40d to acquire. I also tried center point focus and all points (AF)

Here is an example, 3 images, image, AF info and shot info.

thanks.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

---------------
40D
Feedback
https://photography-on-the.net …=12524713&postc​ount=27116
https://photography-on-the.net …=16216631&postc​ount=41043

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
five0.4tluv
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
112 posts
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Austin
     
May 16, 2011 09:49 |  #2

one more example with "still" objects. I will also add that although I was in burst mode, I was not doing a lot of burst captures. so most are just single frame clicks.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

---------------
40D
Feedback
https://photography-on-the.net …=12524713&postc​ount=27116
https://photography-on-the.net …=16216631&postc​ount=41043

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
HughR
Senior Member
Avatar
999 posts
Joined Feb 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
     
May 16, 2011 11:19 |  #3

^^^ Looks to me as though the sharp focus is on the background, so all of the foreground is out of focus. I use the 15-85mm IS with my 60D and get very sharp images, even at ISO 3200. Ideal with one-point AF and the framing you have would have been to use the lowest AF point to focus on the word "Austin", which has high contrast contours. If focus was on the hair (which is a repetitive pattern), there may not have been enough high contrast detail for accurate focus. You might want to try this out at some point with your wife or child functioning as model under similar conditions. In short, I suspect it's either your AF technique or the 40D, but NOT the 15-85 lens.


Hugh
Canon 60D, Original Digital Rebel (2003)
EFS 15-85mm IS USM, EF 70-300mm IS USM, Tokina 11-16mm
Speedlite 430EX, Speedlite 430EX II,
Qbox 16 pro, Lastolite EZbox 24x24, Lumiquest Softbox III

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
five0.4tluv
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
112 posts
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Austin
     
May 16, 2011 11:58 |  #4

I obviously missed the target on the 2nd pic. I thought I was on the letters on the kids back. I'm gonna borrow my neighbors 50d and see if there is an issue with my 40d just to rule out the camera. I've always felt that images were soft and not sharp even with my nifty-fifty, even with a tripod test. But I think overall my technique is off. I think for the most part I've got the settings where they should yield usable pics but my hand holding or tracking is bad. I'm also not fast enough to change AF points during shooting.


---------------
40D
Feedback
https://photography-on-the.net …=12524713&postc​ount=27116
https://photography-on-the.net …=16216631&postc​ount=41043

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
dwarrenr
Goldmember
Avatar
1,650 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Apr 2009
Location: Fairland, Indiana
     
May 16, 2011 13:12 |  #5

I'm not fast at changing AF points either (takes me a few seconds). I would suggest only using the middle AF point. And if you are not able to tract your subject take it of AI all together. That way you can pick where you want the camera to focus. You'll want to press half way down on the shutter button with the AF point on your subject. Once the camera locks the focus you can recompose your shot (as long as you don't letup on the shutter button) then depress the shutter button all the way. Then take a look at your images and see what you get.


D. Warren Robison
"All guys feel the need to compensate. Most compensate with sports cars. I compensate with a 400mm 2.8"
Flickr (external link) - Home Page (external link) - MaxPreps Gallery - (external link)Razzi (external link)
Equipment List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ChunkyDA
Goldmember
Avatar
3,712 posts
Gallery: 17 photos
Likes: 90
Joined Apr 2007
Location: Emerald Coast, FL
     
May 16, 2011 21:38 |  #6

There are a few issues with each picture, your 40D is probably not the culprit. First one has motion blur and you can see the mixed white balance between the flash and ambient lighting. If you had used a faster shutter speed the room and kids in back would have been dark or not even visible. I would have pre-focused on the platform by pressing and holding the shutter button half way and not let go. I would then follow the subject with the camera until he was on the platform and press the shutter fully. this would cause motion blur to be on the room and other kids, like a panned professional shot. They aren't the subject anyway but you want to see that there is something else in the room and he is not in a dark cave so this shot is very close to what you probably would be happy with as a keeper/ You also chopped off his head. I would look at the nice big LCD screen on the back of the 40D and have him re-accomplish the stunt with a wider angle on the zoom or move back. Always true that digital noise from a high ISO is correctable, motion blur and out of focus are not. Don't be afraid to turn up the ISO setting. For both of these shots a better setting would be one-shot AF with the center point active. For the first, focus on the platform where the action is about to happen and do not release the shutter button from the half-way point until your subject is on the platform. For the second one, again put the center point on the subject you want in focus then recompose to get everyone in there and press the shutter button the rest of the way. What is the subject of the second shot? Most people want to see the kids face but if the shirt with his name on it is what you are after, then fire away. Use the pop-up flash to fill in for the fact that less light is on his back than front. The light would have been better from the other end of the table since there is a nice big window over there.


Dave
Support Search and Rescue, Get Lost (external link)
Gear list and some feedback

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
JohnR84740
Member
40 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Jan 2005
Location: Charleston, WV
     
May 18, 2011 21:57 as a reply to  @ ChunkyDA's post |  #7

Ditto ...

While there multiple problems with the photos, they are not that hard to fix. Yes, faster glass is a HUGE help, but there are tricks to working with what you have. I am glad to see that you have figured out correct exposure in manual mode - that is an excellent accomplishment in itself! Now Try:

1: Stick to single AF Point (center or other, though center is most sensitive). Rather than letting the camera determine what your focus point should be, choose the one you want to work with. Also for starters, I would suggest going to SINGLE SHOT AF mode and turning off the camera's burst feature. Once you learn how your AF system works and are comfortable changing focus points during the action, then move on to AI Servo in burst mode, but you still be in control of selecting the AF point. I use this technique on my 50d shooting without flash in conditions as dim as you had.

2: don't be afraid to push the limits. By that, I mean things like ISO, shutter speed, and aperture. The 40 D is very capable at ISO 1600, which would give you a faster shutter speed for proper exposure. For this situation, you probably could have pushed the ISO to 2500 and with good exposure had excellent results. Drop the f-stop and gain even more shutter speed. there is nothing like a faster shutter speed to help your action shots look better. That is one reason the pros use the more expensive glass... to get that fast shutter speed! In the end, photography involves making compromises in order to get the results you want with the gear you have.

3: give the camera time to acquire focus. Often, sports shooters will assign a back button a focus function, or you can do the half-press on the shutter to pre-focus. Either way, these actions allow you to focus long before you pull the trigger on the shutter. You will be amazed at the improvement this yields.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sdsportsshooter
Hatchling
9 posts
Joined Nov 2010
Location: Brookings
     
May 18, 2011 23:44 |  #8

Couple of things that I noticed (and believe me, I have been there)!
Don't be afraid to let your flash do some of the work - you may be underexposed if you push your shutter to 250, but that is one of the advantages of using a 40/50D. The quicker shutter, along with the flash, will help stop the action/blur. With that 430EXII flash, your ETTL should work pretty well, especially if you meter full frame, so you really shouldn't overexpose the shot.
Another thing to try (a really experienced sports shooter pointed this out to me at a state gymnastics meet) - focus on the box that he is ready to jump off of - and then switch your lens to manual focus so it won't search for a focal point - with the lens you have at 5.0 aperture, your depth of field from the front of the box to a foot (or two) behind the box should be fine.
Noticed on your last photo that your shutter was at 1/60 - the only time that you can drop that low (especially hand-held) and be in focus (unless you have IS), is if someone is actually posing for a shot. Any extraneous movement at 1/60 is going to blur. If there isn't a lot of movement, try AI-Focus, which will help with a static shot as far as focusing.
Just a couple of tricks that have worked for me!


Troy
http://www.mugsbymaron​ey.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
five0.4tluv
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
112 posts
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Austin
     
May 19, 2011 14:16 as a reply to  @ sdsportsshooter's post |  #9

@JohnR84740

Thanks. I had the center point AF set on the first pic along with the flash. So I think I needed to to just change to single shot and bump speed a bit. I could have been moving a bit also trying to keep up with them.

@sdsportsshooter

I think the last shot was simply me missing my AF mark, center point on the jersey name. The mom wanted a shot of his jersey and the Cowboys balloons. I turned off the flash because that part of the location was pretty well lit.

Still working my on me technique. Thanks for the tips and tricks.


---------------
40D
Feedback
https://photography-on-the.net …=12524713&postc​ount=27116
https://photography-on-the.net …=16216631&postc​ount=41043

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Zivnuska
Goldmember
Avatar
3,674 posts
Gallery: 72 photos
Likes: 629
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Wichita, Kansas
     
May 19, 2011 15:53 as a reply to  @ five0.4tluv's post |  #10

Motion blur x 2.

Shutter speeds of 1/100 or 1/60 are far too slow to capture moving objects. In the first shot, this can be easily seen in comparing the two feet of the boy on the table. The toe of the moving right foot has ghosting from the flash while the stationary left foot appears comparitively sharp. Your depth of field is huge at f/5.0 and 22mm. The focus is not the issue. Shutter speed is the issue.

http://www.dofmaster.c​om/dofjs.html (external link)

In the second shot, 1/60 second may be fine for people able to pose without any motion, but active kids will require a far faster shutter speed.

Adjust ISO and aperture to get a far faster shutter speed (1/400 or faster) and shoot without flash.


www.zivnuska.zenfolio.​com/blog (external link) = My Blog
Gear List
www.zivnuska.zenfolio.​com (external link)

"It's not tight until you see the color of the irides."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Zivnuska
Goldmember
Avatar
3,674 posts
Gallery: 72 photos
Likes: 629
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Wichita, Kansas
     
May 20, 2011 06:48 as a reply to  @ Zivnuska's post |  #11

Let me expand on the depth of field point.

The first shot is 24mm, f/5.0, with a 40D. If the lens is focused at 10 ft. the depth of field will be 13 1/2 feet! Objects from 6.6 to 20.1 feet will be in focus.

The second shot at 22m and the same f/stop will have a depth of field (10 ft. focus) of 18.7 feet. Objects from 6.26 to 24.9 ft. will be in focus.

Wide angle shots have a large dof. Your 40D can easily focus good enough to appropriately capture the shots you were taking. The slow shutter speed is not so forgiving. Flash won't help you because you are mixing flash light with ambient light and that won't work for active subjects. Supplemental lighting for sports will only work when the added light dominates over ambient by at least 2 and preferably 3 stops. HSS will just use up your batteries and cut your flash power. [BTW, the large dof properties of wide angle and ultra wide angle lenses can be put to use from time to time.]


Sports images require fast shutter speeds. Using 1/400 is minimally OK and should be fine for kids at a party. I prefer 1/640 or even faster shutter speeds (sports shots) if conditions permit me to get them.


www.zivnuska.zenfolio.​com/blog (external link) = My Blog
Gear List
www.zivnuska.zenfolio.​com (external link)

"It's not tight until you see the color of the irides."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
five0.4tluv
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
112 posts
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Austin
     
May 20, 2011 08:27 as a reply to  @ Zivnuska's post |  #12

I was actually about 5' away from the platform.

Depth of field
Near limit 4.73 ft
Far limit 5.3 ft
Total 0.57 ft

In front of subject 0.27 ft (47%)
Behind subject 0.3 ft (53%)

I'll keep working on it. I still think I have a focus issue with my 40d. I can't seem to get focused shots on stationary objects with either lens. Next tests will be on the tripod.


---------------
40D
Feedback
https://photography-on-the.net …=12524713&postc​ount=27116
https://photography-on-the.net …=16216631&postc​ount=41043

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Zivnuska
Goldmember
Avatar
3,674 posts
Gallery: 72 photos
Likes: 629
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Wichita, Kansas
     
May 20, 2011 19:52 as a reply to  @ five0.4tluv's post |  #13

Double check your calculation. Be sure to use 40D, 24mm (22 mm for picture #2), f/5.0


www.zivnuska.zenfolio.​com/blog (external link) = My Blog
Gear List
www.zivnuska.zenfolio.​com (external link)

"It's not tight until you see the color of the irides."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
five0.4tluv
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
112 posts
Joined Apr 2010
Location: Austin
     
May 21, 2011 13:11 |  #14

I used your provided link.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


---------------
40D
Feedback
https://photography-on-the.net …=12524713&postc​ount=27116
https://photography-on-the.net …=16216631&postc​ount=41043

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Zivnuska
Goldmember
Avatar
3,674 posts
Gallery: 72 photos
Likes: 629
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Wichita, Kansas
     
May 21, 2011 13:39 as a reply to  @ five0.4tluv's post |  #15

Your 40D should be able to focus within that dof easily. Just get your SS faster and things will improve dramatically.


www.zivnuska.zenfolio.​com/blog (external link) = My Blog
Gear List
www.zivnuska.zenfolio.​com (external link)

"It's not tight until you see the color of the irides."

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

2,922 views & 0 likes for this thread
What am I doing wrong
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is 360nomad
1121 guests, 219 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.