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Thread started 23 Jun 2011 (Thursday) 00:02
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Threatened by local photographer...help!

 
RDKirk
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Jun 26, 2011 21:18 |  #136

Nothing applicable there.

One of the many from Santa Clara County
http://www.sccgov.org …/TMPKeyboard203​361833.pdf (external link)

Here is one from San Jose unified school district
http://www.sccgov.org …/TMPKeyboard203​207769.pdf (external link)

There was nothing in there prohibiting a students patronization of a teacher's part-time business.

There was nothing in there prohibiting a students patronization of a teacher's part-time business.

Let's break this down. All of them (and all the conflict of interest situations I'm personally aware of or have been involved in), tend to mirror what Gallaudet stipulated. Let's look at Gallaudet's policy:

An administrator, faculty, teacher, or staff member will be considered to have a possible conflict of interest if:

a) he/she has a current or potential financial or other interest which impairs or might appear to impair his/her independent and unbiased judgment in the discharge of his/her responsibilities to the University;

b) he/she has a business relationship with any person or firm engaging in, or seeking to engage in, business with the University;

c) he/she is aware of an immediate family member's ownership of, interest in, or employment with a firm engaging in, or seeking to engage in, business with the University;

d) he/she is an officer, director, trustee, partner, controlling stockholder, or employee of a firm engaging in, or seeking to engage in, business with the University; or

e) he/she may receive a material financial or other benefit from knowledge of information confidential to the University.

The major simularity between all those clauses is that they concern situations in which the person associated with the school has insider knowledge or power to wield in his own behalf in a relationship with another business.

None of them is about owning a business that is patronized by students. In fact, they couldn't--most of the people covered by the conflict of interest policies are business owners themselves. Is the school going to tell the board member who owns a major business in town that he can have none of the students patronize his business?

I'm in a town that is headquarters to a major auto manufacturer, and company officers have been school board members, as well as company employees and dealers of the company. Do you really think that board membership precludes any officer or employee of the company or any of the dealers from selling automobiles to any of the parents of the students in town?

Sorry, those policies do not say that, and none of the policies you've listed precludes a teacher from selling, say, Mary Kay cosmetics, to a student's parents...or portraits.


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LBaldwin
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Jun 26, 2011 21:38 |  #137

I agree. But this is most often the quoted policies when you first approach the schools. You get these packets with an inch of legal eeze, it's not so much what it sez but how they are applied. Now I used general policies that I found with google, but the ones from my area are also included in new contractor packets. I don't even bother with that market any longer and neither do most of the other photogrphers I used to shoot proms, dances and portraits for. We have a very large studio in the area and they have the market sewed up throughout much of NOR CAL. Not that I really care, that market is boring as hell AFAIAC. I still get called from time to time for a school dance when they have a shooter bail. I am always busy. The last few I got emailed on ( I am on a state gov listserv) sent to policies, terms and conditions along with the inquiry. Each one was 6 megs of crap in my inbox. I deleted them and said no thank you. The biggest lately, requiring insurance that pays the school should technical issues arise during the shoot. This way the kids can get a re-shoot at cost. Of the 10 or so photographers that I knew in this market all have left save one and he only shoots CAL school sports.


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bobbyz
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Jun 26, 2011 22:37 |  #138

If she was a rep for the other photog, probably she got some freebies. Most senior reps do. I would ask her to talk with that photog if she not happy with her pictures and pay for if she got some free pictures etc. so she can get out of what ever contract she had with the other photog and then use your services. Seems simple to me.

On a side note, if she is your friend, I would have liked if her or the her mom told you something about the contract with the other photog. Or be honest with you about what she promised to do for the other photog. Wish they told you this before your shoot.


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RDKirk
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Jun 26, 2011 23:27 |  #139

This thread is not about contracted school photographers.

LBaldwin wrote in post #12662539 (external link)
I agree. But this is most often the quoted policies when you first approach the schools. You get these packets with an inch of legal eeze, it's not so much what it sez but how they are applied. Now I used general policies that I found with google, but the ones from my area are also included in new contractor packets. I don't even bother with that market any longer and neither do most of the other photogrphers I used to shoot proms, dances and portraits for. We have a very large studio in the area and they have the market sewed up throughout much of NOR CAL. Not that I really care, that market is boring as hell AFAIAC. I still get called from time to time for a school dance when they have a shooter bail. I am always busy. The last few I got emailed on ( I am on a state gov listserv) sent to policies, terms and conditions along with the inquiry. Each one was 6 megs of crap in my inbox. I deleted them and said no thank you. The biggest lately, requiring insurance that pays the school should technical issues arise during the shoot. This way the kids can get a re-shoot at cost. Of the 10 or so photographers that I knew in this market all have left save one and he only shoots CAL school sports.


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ChronosMonos
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Jun 27, 2011 04:39 |  #140

How did this thread become about whether a teacher should be allowed to take pictures of a student? I thought this was about a photographer getting threats for taking pics of another photographer's client?




  
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DM1975
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Jun 27, 2011 07:54 |  #141

Yup, way off topic for the original subject matter. And for that matter I feel that the "extra discussion" is really twisting around facts and situations way too much.

Simple steps to take...
1.Tell bully to take a hike and report them to PPA for their heavy handed tactics.

2.Give student awesome pictures...

3.Rejoice, this is America. No one can force you around like this without concequences...


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Jun 27, 2011 07:58 |  #142

jukas wrote in post #12649268 (external link)
They actually signed a exclusivity contract with the photographer with no term period or exit clause?

That boggles my mind.

Oh crap, I can't wait to make it through this thread to post this.

Anyone seen the HumancentiPad episode on Southpark where Steve Jobs is furious at Kyle because he keeps signing contracts saying that Apple can experiement on them all they want. "Why can't it learn to read?!?!?"


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ChronosMonos
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Jun 27, 2011 08:54 |  #143

Slightly off topic, but lol.




  
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LauraSB
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Jun 27, 2011 16:00 |  #144

Tell the other photographer to pound sand


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PeaceFire
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Jun 27, 2011 21:30 |  #145

People never read contracts, I'm learning. You have to literally spell things out to them. $10 says this mom and daughter never read the contract, just signed on the dotted line and went on their merry way. Another $10 says the other photographer didn't go over the contract with them to make it clear they couldn't pose for another photographer.

Seriously please, don't sign anything until you read it! Haven't you seen "Wayne's World"!?!!

ChronosMonos wrote in post #12663818 (external link)
How did this thread become about whether a teacher should be allowed to take pictures of a student? I thought this was about a photographer getting threats for taking pics of another photographer's client?

Threads can go in any direction! That's the beauty of a message board full of opinions.


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BreitlingFan
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Jun 29, 2011 08:42 |  #146
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futrcndctr wrote in post #12642882 (external link)
Hey everyone,

My business isn't that old (about a year), and I'm facing my first legal conflict. I recently took senior photos of a student who was under "contract" with another senior photographer in the area. After seeing her photos with the other photographer, she was not happy with them and wanted better senior pictures for her announcements, so she came to me. I had no knowledge of her being under contract with another photographer when I took the photos.

Anyway, the photos came out really good (some of my best work up to this point) so I used them for some marketing on my website and facebook page. The other photographer saw this, and sent me an email demanding the images be taken down immediately, lest she notify the PPA and her attorney. I took them down to make her happy, but I'd like to use them in the future since they came out so good.

Pardon my rookie-ness, but I'd like to know a few things...is it legal for photographers to have exclusive rights for a year over a model, and that they are unable to be photographed by anyone else until after they graduate?

Should I just take the images down and never use them again, or can I use them sometime in the future? I don't want to be a jerk about it, but they are good images and I'd like to use them sometime.

Any advice in this situation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I would think her beef is with the person posing, not with you. You're not a party to their contract (if they really have one) and, as such, it's impossible to hold you liable if that contract is breached.

Personally, I'd tell her to go pound sand. I'd use them. I'd let her got to her attorney, the PPA, and anyone else she wants to.

You've done nothing wrong...


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Jun 29, 2011 15:11 |  #147

P51Mstg wrote in post #12647558 (external link)
As a retired lawyer, I'd love to see the contract.

Mark H

I as well, this could be interesting.

Wayne


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boikman
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Jun 29, 2011 19:49 |  #148

I have recently retired from "school photography" after many years. The "contract" that the photographer is referring to is with the school. It most likely says for the student to appear in the yearbook they must be photographed by said photographer.
You most certainly have the right to photograph that student, and post the images on your site. ( with that students parents permission ). We had this happen to us all the time and it's just part of the business. That student can choose one image for the yearbook from that contracted photographer, and select from your images to purchase....all legal.
What worries most school photographers is having " ambassadors" in the school they have a contract with. An ambassador is a student who has portraits taken by another photographer( you ) and shows them to her friends at school. I guess I don't have to explain how it works from there but you get the idea. " You're stealing my business " is basically what the contract photographer would say....no, this is competition my friend.
Good luck on your adventure.....:lol:




  
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ChronosMonos
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Jun 29, 2011 21:48 |  #149

Originally Posted by ChronosMonos
How did this thread become about whether a teacher should be allowed to take pictures of a student? I thought this was about a photographer getting threats for taking pics of another photographer's client?

PeaceFire wrote in post #12668261 (external link)
Threads can go in any direction! That's the beauty of a message board full of opinions.

Yes that's all good and true but the thread is titled "Threatened by local photographer" and the subject is about what steps to take if you get in this situation, and debating whether a teacher is allowed to take pics of a student is fairly off topic.




  
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