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Thread started 29 Jul 2010 (Thursday) 01:36
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Samyang Rokinon Vivitar 14 2.8 lens

 
MNUplander
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Jun 29, 2011 12:52 |  #676

kylyo wrote in post #12676875 (external link)
Mine will be here Friday! I plan on taking to Mount Rainier this weekend for some Milky Way shots!

I see quite a few people mentioning to check infinity focus. What is the best way to do that? Is it obvious enough to live view focus on stars?

Thanks

For you and all the others worried about infinity focus:

Dont bother shooting at infinity, use hyperfocal distances. Set hyperfocal distance on this lens by putting the infinity mark over the number of the aperture you are using and you'll be at the hyperfocal distance. Everything from half of the hyperfocal distance to infinity should be in focus.

Google DOF Master to find charts about what these distances are for each of your lenses so you'll know what your nearest point in focus will be for each aperture and focal length.

Remember, you wont see this thru your viewfinder or live view as your aperture is always wide open unless you press the shutter or the DOF preview button.

Or, can someone who has this lens and understands hyperfocal distances confirm that the focus scale is also not accurate for this?


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kylyo
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Jun 29, 2011 13:02 |  #677

MNUplander wrote in post #12677684 (external link)
For you and all the others worried about infinity focus:

Dont bother shooting at infinity, use hyperfocal distances. Set hyperfocal distance on this lens by putting the infinity mark over the number of the aperture you are using and you'll be at the hyperfocal distance. Everything from half of the hyperfocal distance to infinity should be in focus.

Google DOF Master to find charts about what these distances are for each of your lenses so you'll know what your nearest point in focus will be for each aperture.

Remember, you wont see this thru your viewfinder or live view as your aperture is always wide open unless you press the shutter or the DOF preview button.

Or, can someone who has this lens and understands hyperfocal distances confirm that the focus scale is also not accurate for this?

From what I have experienced, using hyperfocal distances at low apertures does not yield as sharp as results at infinity than focusing at infinity. "Acceptable" sharpness will not be as sharp as "sharp". I'll give it a try with this lens when it comes in and see how it looks.


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MNUplander
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Jun 29, 2011 13:36 |  #678

kylyo wrote in post #12677729 (external link)
From what I have experienced, using hyperfocal distances at low apertures does not yield as sharp as results at infinity than focusing at infinity. "Acceptable" sharpness will not be as sharp as "sharp". I'll give it a try with this lens when it comes in and see how it looks.

Although what youve said is true, I think the difference in sharpness is marginal - especially after PP is applied.

Plus, the problem with focusing at infinity is that your foreground isnt sharp. IMO, any decent landscape photo is going to have some sort of foreground interest to lead you into the scene and having a sharp foreground and acceptable sharp background is going to win over a critically sharp background with no forground or an out of focus foreground.

The point of focusing at the hyperfocal distance is to balance your sharpness at given settings across your foreground and background rather than having one critically sharp and the other blurry. You have wiggle room to apply more weight to one or the other by setting to hyperfocal and focusing slightly more in or out, depending on the composition. Want your foreground sharper - then back off from hyperfocal distance a bit. Want a slightly sharper background - focus a little deeper into the scene beyond hyperfocal distance. I prefer to compose so that the aperture Ive selected gives me justa little bit more DOF than I need and focus a little past hyperfocal distance than to focus exactly at the hyperfocal distance using a larger aperture - unless diffraction comes into play.

Although, Ive never used a 14mm lens on FF so maybe you do get a decent enough foreground focusing at infinity when shooting that wide. But, I know that it has always worked and will continue to work shooting at hyperfocal distances so Ill probaly keep doing that even if I do bite on this lens someday.


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JayStar86
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Jun 29, 2011 13:54 |  #679

^^^ good info above.


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kylyo
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Jun 29, 2011 16:59 |  #680

MNUplander wrote in post #12677906 (external link)
Although what youve said is true, I think the difference in sharpness is marginal - especially after PP is applied.

Plus, the problem with focusing at infinity is that your foreground isnt sharp. IMO, any decent landscape photo is going to have some sort of foreground interest to lead you into the scene and having a sharp foreground and acceptable sharp background is going to win over a critically sharp background with no forground or an out of focus foreground.

The point of focusing at the hyperfocal distance is to balance your sharpness at given settings across your foreground and background rather than having one critically sharp and the other blurry. You have wiggle room to apply more weight to one or the other by setting to hyperfocal and focusing slightly more in or out, depending on the composition. Want your foreground sharper - then back off from hyperfocal distance a bit. Want a slightly sharper background - focus a little deeper into the scene beyond hyperfocal distance. I prefer to compose so that the aperture Ive selected gives me justa little bit more DOF than I need and focus a little past hyperfocal distance than to focus exactly at the hyperfocal distance using a larger aperture - unless diffraction comes into play.

Although, Ive never used a 14mm lens on FF so maybe you do get a decent enough foreground focusing at infinity when shooting that wide. But, I know that it has always worked and will continue to work shooting at hyperfocal distances so Ill probaly keep doing that even if I do bite on this lens someday.

Good points, thanks! I plan on shooting the milky way as vertical pano with just a little bit of Mount Rainier at the bottom, so it will be pretty far away. Maybe I'll go the hyperfocal distance and then focus a little deeper like you said.


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kbColorado
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Jun 29, 2011 17:06 |  #681

MNUplander wrote in post #12677906 (external link)
Although what youve said is true, I think the difference in sharpness is marginal - especially after PP is applied.

Plus, the problem with focusing at infinity is that your foreground isnt sharp. IMO, any decent landscape photo is going to have some sort of foreground interest to lead you into the scene and having a sharp foreground and acceptable sharp background is going to win over a critically sharp background with no forground or an out of focus foreground.

The point of focusing at the hyperfocal distance is to balance your sharpness at given settings across your foreground and background rather than having one critically sharp and the other blurry. You have wiggle room to apply more weight to one or the other by setting to hyperfocal and focusing slightly more in or out, depending on the composition. Want your foreground sharper - then back off from hyperfocal distance a bit. Want a slightly sharper background - focus a little deeper into the scene beyond hyperfocal distance. I prefer to compose so that the aperture Ive selected gives me justa little bit more DOF than I need and focus a little past hyperfocal distance than to focus exactly at the hyperfocal distance using a larger aperture - unless diffraction comes into play.

Although, Ive never used a 14mm lens on FF so maybe you do get a decent enough foreground focusing at infinity when shooting that wide. But, I know that it has always worked and will continue to work shooting at hyperfocal distances so Ill probaly keep doing that even if I do bite on this lens someday.

I think you're misunderstanding the problem. Sure, focusing at infinity with a UWA needlessly softens your foreground. The point here is that when you crank the focus ring all the way out to the infinity mark on THIS lens, with a FF Canon camera, it does not focus at infinity. As a result, using the infinity mark as any sort of reference is pretty much useless.


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MNUplander
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Jun 29, 2011 17:12 |  #682

kbColorado wrote in post #12679121 (external link)
I think you're misunderstanding the problem. Sure, focusing at infinity with a UWA needlessly softens your foreground. The point here is that when you crank the focus ring all the way out to the infinity mark on THIS lens, with a FF Canon camera, it does not focus at infinity. As a result, using the infinity mark as any sort of reference is pretty much useless.

So dont focus at infinity - its not the "best" way to do it anyway. Focus at the hyperfocal distance instead and you avoid the problem altogether.

No, its not as easy as cranking the focus ring until you hit a hard stop but the technique is good practice in general and it solves the problem this particular lens has,


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kbColorado
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Jun 29, 2011 17:28 |  #683

MNUplander wrote in post #12679141 (external link)
So dont focus at infinity - its not the "best" way to do it anyway. Focus at the hyperfocal distance instead and you avoid the problem altogether.

No, its not as easy as cranking the focus ring until you hit a hard stop but the technique is good practice in general and it solves the problem this particular lens has,

I am not arguing this principle ... what I am doing is pointing out this earlier statement of yours will not fly with THIS lens on a CANON FF camera:

"Dont bother shooting at infinity, use hyperfocal distances. Set hyperfocal distance on this lens by putting the infinity mark over the number of the aperture you are using and you'll be at the hyperfocal distance. Everything from half of the hyperfocal distance to infinity should be in focus"

THE INFINITY MARK ON THIS LENS WITH A CANON FF CAMERA IS USELESS.

That is all ;)


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MNUplander
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Jun 29, 2011 17:59 |  #684

kbColorado wrote in post #12679212 (external link)
I am not arguing this principle ... what I am doing is pointing out this earlier statement of yours will not fly with THIS lens on a CANON FF camera:

"Dont bother shooting at infinity, use hyperfocal distances. Set hyperfocal distance on this lens by putting the infinity mark over the number of the aperture you are using and you'll be at the hyperfocal distance. Everything from half of the hyperfocal distance to infinity should be in focus"

THE INFINITY MARK ON THIS LENS WITH A CANON FF CAMERA IS USELESS.

That is all ;)

Inaccurate, yes. Useless, no. You can still apply the principles Im talking about once you know how your lens behaves. Sure, the infinity mark may not be spot on - but I bet its a pretty good reference point and it isnt going to change every time you use it. Might not be able to line it up exactly on the aperture you're using, but if you know the point is always a few degrees off in one direction for that aperture then problem solved.

Just do some tests starting with the infinity mark on the aperture you use most, then take a couple pictures from a tripod with focus settings near there and find out what images look best to your eye. It'll take you 30 minutes or less and from that point on you'll have a very good idea of where to focus. Its not like you need to be super accurate at 14mm anyway.

Hell, find the sweet spot and tape it down with painters tape when you want to go out shooting landscapes with deep DOF.


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jasongraaf
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Jun 29, 2011 19:57 |  #685

It's more like 20 degrees for me (and probably everyone else). Does anyone know how to change the focusing ring? I seem to remember reading that the tiny flat-head screws around the body lets you adjust this?

I use the PTlens plugin for Photoshop CS5 when I need straight lines and it does get them perfect. Also has a huge collection of lenses of every kind. And according to the creator, if your lens isn't there you can send him a couple pictures and he will create a new profile for it. For $25 it was kind of a no-brainer for me. Yes, it cuts a bit off the corners and resolution must be reduced, although I can't see any real world effect, but this is necessary for any program to correct distortion.


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ZoneV
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Jun 30, 2011 02:35 |  #686

jasongraaf wrote in post #12679874 (external link)
It's more like 20 degrees for me (and probably everyone else). Does anyone know how to change the focusing ring? I seem to remember reading that the tiny flat-head screws around the body lets you adjust this?
...

My lens made sharp images of infinite objects with the distance scale showing ~0,8 meter distance.

There are two ways of adjustment:
a) Correction of the internal focussing system
b) Correction of the back focal length / register distance of the lens

I used the way for the internal focus correction first, but it didnĀ“d worked for my lens, probably it was to far out. After that I corrected the back focal length.

And some time after this I found out that the lens housing itself was a bit loose, corrected that, and could remove my back focal correction washers.
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AzzKicker
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Jun 30, 2011 10:14 |  #687

MNUplander wrote in post #12679335 (external link)
Inaccurate, yes. Useless, no. You can still apply the principles Im talking about once you know how your lens behaves. Sure, the infinity mark may not be spot on - but I bet its a pretty good reference point and it isnt going to change every time you use it. Might not be able to line it up exactly on the aperture you're using, but if you know the point is always a few degrees off in one direction for that aperture then problem solved.

Just do some tests starting with the infinity mark on the aperture you use most, then take a couple pictures from a tripod with focus settings near there and find out what images look best to your eye. It'll take you 30 minutes or less and from that point on you'll have a very good idea of where to focus. Its not like you need to be super accurate at 14mm anyway.

Hell, find the sweet spot and tape it down with painters tape when you want to go out shooting landscapes with deep DOF.

I'm going to paint mine own markers on it somehow. Find the sweet spot for different apeture and mark it.


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A.Gunnar
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Jun 30, 2011 17:05 |  #688

IMAGE: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9ph9SNfpKeY/Tgzw-ZdyvtI/AAAAAAAADgo/HaCZDyPq3g8/s1152/020-021.jpg



  
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Jun 30, 2011 19:15 |  #689

IMAGE NOT FOUND
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HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

IMG_4722 (external link) by ColmRogan (external link), on Flickr

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Jul 02, 2011 09:09 as a reply to  @ PACO11's post |  #690

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Samyang Rokinon Vivitar 14 2.8 lens
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